USN VFX Competition (Alternatives to the F-14)

From Curtis Mooney on Facebook Group "The Greatest Planes That Never Were"

My dad, Walter E. Mooney, had a concept for the convair TFX (x44) which featured twin vertical tails and small canard surfaces just ahead of the engine intakes (just like the F-14), and his boss, Ed Heinemann (designer of the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk) killed it saying, "Mooney, I guarantee you one thing; the winning design will *not* have twin tails.
 
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
From Curtis Mooney on Facebook Group "The Greatest Planes That Never Were"
My dad, Walter E. Mooney, had a concept for the convair TFX (x44) which featured twin vertical tails and small canard surfaces just ahead of the engine intakes (just like the F-14), and his boss, Ed Heinemann (designer of the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk) killed it saying, "Mooney, I guarantee you one thing; the winning design will *not* have twin tails.

Did Heinemann work at Convair? I hadn't realized that, as I always thought he worked just for Douglas. I guess I'll have to look more into his history.
 
Sundog said:
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
From Curtis Mooney on Facebook Group "The Greatest Planes That Never Were"
My dad, Walter E. Mooney, had a concept for the convair TFX (x44) which featured twin vertical tails and small canard surfaces just ahead of the engine intakes (just like the F-14), and his boss, Ed Heinemann (designer of the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk) killed it saying, "Mooney, I guarantee you one thing; the winning design will *not* have twin tails.

Did Heinemann work at Convair? I hadn't realized that, as I always thought he worked just for Douglas. I guess I'll have to look more into his history.

He worked there from around 1960 and was key to the F-111 and F-16 designs.
 
Abraham Gubler said:
Sundog said:
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
From Curtis Mooney on Facebook Group "The Greatest Planes That Never Were"
My dad, Walter E. Mooney, had a concept for the convair TFX (x44) which featured twin vertical tails and small canard surfaces just ahead of the engine intakes (just like the F-14), and his boss, Ed Heinemann (designer of the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk) killed it saying, "Mooney, I guarantee you one thing; the winning design will *not* have twin tails.

Did Heinemann work at Convair? I hadn't realized that, as I always thought he worked just for Douglas. I guess I'll have to look more into his history.

He worked there from around 1960 and was key to the F-111 and F-16 designs.


According to Wikipedia:

Heinemann became Douglas's Chief Engineer in 1936. He remained with the company through 1960, when he left to join Guidance Technology. In 1962 he joined General Dynamics as Corporate Vice President of Engineering. In this position he oversaw the development of the F-16. He retired in 1973.
 
Wow, I had no idea he had anything to do with the F-16. That's very cool.
 
As Vice-President he wasn't involved at the design level of course. Bob Widmer was in charge and Harry Hillaker was the Chief Engineer.
 
North American Rockwell NR-323 from the NAA Los Angeles Division model shop.
 

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Other pics from auction. High quality pics, you can appreciate the shape very well.
 

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Photo recon version of MD 225.
 

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
Other pics from auction. High quality pics, you can appreciate the shape very well.

Inlet ducting quite like the XB-70 there, rather than XF-108/Vigilante - what was the design Mach?
 
On page 9 of this topic there is a nice cutaway and a SAC which indicates Mach 2.4.
 
RAP said:
On page 9 of this topic there is a nice cutaway and a SAC which indicates Mach 2.4.

I believe he is referring to the NAR Model 323, not the McDonnell Douglas Model 225. Or am I wrong J.A.W.?
 
Not wrong S, it just seems a bit curious why NAA would go to that effort for a twin & adapt an XB-70 type inlet.
 
Well it made a pretty penny.. ..is the blurb claiming a design Vmax of Mach 2.2 accurate for that NAA proposal?
 
Well here are some $1,224.99 photos of the NR-323...
 

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Thanks for the pics. I'm glad someone here was able to get it. :)
 
It's interesting that the Sea Eagle is mentioned as being usable on a wider variety of aircraft carriers than the F-14 or even the F-4. The Essex class carriers were on the way out while the F-14 and F-15 programs were being conceived, but perhaps a Sea Eagle could have increased the utility of the Midway class (which couldn't operate the F-14) and have caused changes in the design of smaller Western aircraft carriers of the 1970s and later towards the STOBAR configurations.

Also, I'm wondering if the Sea Eagle could have replaced several types of aircraft in the USN through a modular approach using various FAST packs (there was a diagram elsewhere with several proposed types other than the fuel types adopted). Some could be wired for roles requiring significant electrical power, such as Phoenix interceptors or electronic warfare. Others could carry FAST pack fuel tanks (perhaps even refueling equipment), reconnaissance packs, etc.
 
Greetings All -

Attached is a photo of the North American design from the Tailhook collection - I changed the file name as it was originally ID'd as a TFX design.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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Thanks Mark - Slightly better? Original is overly bright.
 

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Good Day All!

Some McDonnell Model 225 Artwork - likely from the same artist for the artwork RAP posted earlier....

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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Good Day All -

Two more Model 225 drawings for your perusal....

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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Mark Nankivil said:
Good Day All -

Two more Model 225 drawings for your perusal....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

It's interesting that the first image shows the Model 225 landing on a Forrestal-class CV, i.e. USS Independence.
 
Higher res copy of this Rockwell VFX painting.

Source: AWST 20th May 1968
 

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Good Day All -

A recent treasure trove of a donation from a retired McAir engineer has a folder full of Model 225 wind tunnel images. This one is interesting as it appears to be a very early iteration with a F-4 Phantom style intake instead of the proposed production type intake (F-15 type layout). The forward fuselage looks to me to be far more like the Phantom as well. No date on the photo but interestingly credited to the Douglas - El Segundo Aerophysics Laboratory.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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The intake looks like a vertical version of this early McDonnell-Douglas FX intake:
 

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