Does anyone know how long this ammo stuck around? Did the Navy have 8" shells sitting in some depot until Des Moines and Salem were stricken in 1991? Or was it all transferred to the Army after Newport New decommissioned in 1975?
I'd suspect that the 335lb AP shells were kept in a depot until the ships were stricken. ~240lb HE shells probably went into general Army storage, because they are the same weight as Army shells.
 
Yes the 175mm was to use the same gun as found on the M107 SPG the Army was using in Nam.

Israeli later got a a shell that boosted the 175mm range out to 50km which they used to great effect shelling SAM sites, enough that they keep it in reserve to this day, and thats 12km more.

Neither use Basebleed or RAP to reach that range, that was all raw ballistics from the powder charge. So you can easily reach out to 60 70km using the Israeli shell with basebleed, tickle 100 with rap, which I recall them looking into that in the 90s.
One has to wonder whether these opportunities are not being discussed w/Ukraine's 175mms..however for future NATO considerations one would imagine 203mm lg rg would be preferred.
 
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One has to wonder whether these opportunities are not being discussed w/Ukraine's 175mms..however for future NATO considerations one would imagine 203mm lg rg would be preferred.

What Ukrainian 175mm guns? To the best of my knowledge there aren't any.
 
One has to wonder whether these opportunities are not being discussed w/Ukraine's 175mms..however for future NATO considerations one would imagine 203mm lg rg would be preferred.
I don't believe that Ukraine had any? They were 122/152/203mm family.
 
I don't believe that Ukraine had any? They were 122/152/203mm family.

And have pretty solidly swing to 105/155mm now, because that's what the he West can provide.

The delivery of 175mm shells does feel very much like a backdoor disposal of potentially hazardous material by Greece.
 
The delivery of 175mm shells does feel very much like a backdoor disposal of potentially hazardous material by Greece.
Though it has to be said that the Ukrainians are increasingly suffering crippling munitions shortages.
 
The delivery of 175mm shells does feel very much like a backdoor disposal of potentially hazardous material by Greece.
again implausible/impractical.
 
Implausible that the Greeks dumped some barely usable military surplus material on Ukraine rather than paying for proper disposal? They would not be the first to do that, and probably not the last either.
True, but at least the ancient M113s and other items sent to them can usually be used in some way. 175mm shells without any actual 175mm caliber guns to fire them seem very useless. Maybe they could take the explosive out of them (probably past its shelf-life) and reuse it somehow, but I pity the guys getting that job. They shouldn't be that desperate for basic munitions at this point.
 
And have pretty solidly swing to 105/155mm now, because that's what the he West can provide.

The delivery of 175mm shells does feel very much like a backdoor disposal of potentially hazardous material by Greece.

Wondering if it could fired sabotted from an S-23 gun tho.
 
Wondering if it could fired sabotted from an S-23 gun tho.

Designing sabots is tricky work, and doubly so for a shell that wasn't originally designed for a sabot. Maybe some very simple base/cup sabot sort of deal, but it's doing to have all the accuracy of a thrown rock.
 
Designing sabots is tricky work, and doubly so for a shell that wasn't originally designed for a sabot. Maybe some very simple base/cup sabot sort of deal, but it's doing to have all the accuracy of a thrown rock.

Definitely not a wartime expedient but could be cool for a factory I guess. Sadly AFAIK the only active user of the S-23 was the Syrian Army.
 
And have pretty solidly swing to 105/155mm now, because that's what the he West can provide.
And 203mm still. The Soviet 203mm tubes are apparently compatible with US 203mm shells, based on photos of US-marked 203mm ammo but zero reports of M110s being delivered.
 
Looks like it may be the future development of triple 16-inch version mentioned above.
It seems there was a whole series of those studies:

1756335312653.jpeg

BTW, does anybody know where the plans are from? I found them in an old and unsorted archive, and the only hint was that the file was named LFS.
 
Chapter 14 "Fire Support Revisited" of Norman Friedman's U.S. Amphibious Ships and Craft An Illustrated Design History.
Yes, I found the place, they are indeed there, except for the first variant, the one with missile launchers aft, apparently.
 
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but it seemed more appropriate to ask my question in an existing topic rather than starting a new one.

Does anyone have additional details on the fire control system for the Mark 71 Major Caliber Lightweight Gun? Wikipedia says the following but I can't find a copy of the cited article online:
A specially modified Mark 155 ballistic computer provided 8"/55 ballistics for Hull's Mark 68 gun fire control system.[1]
The citation is here: Effron, Herbert M. (December 1975). "8"/55 Major Caliber Lightweight Gun: Big Punch for Small Ships". United States Naval Institute Proceedings: 91–93.

Is this the same Mark 155 ballistic computer used in the A6 Intruder? Or is this a different component? Was the Mark 155 then replacing the regular ballistic computer in the Mk 68, or was it somehow used in addition to the regular analog computer in the Mk 68 system?

Thanks, H
 
I will be modeling this to go along with my several BB-62s. Have several spare Iowa 16”/50 triples, some 8” barrels and a variety of 5”. Need to pick a year to decide if Phalanx or BPDMS - 1970s, 1980s, 1990s
No mount forward of the 16s though, it just seems an uncomfortable place.
Mast - see what’s in the spares.

I’ll happily take ideas to guide and focus the build.
Her name! Potential sources: state, territory, battle, or old monitors
I’ll shift this build and the ship to a separate thread, since it isn’t directly under the subject.
 
Is this the same Mark 155 ballistic computer used in the A6 Intruder?

No, it isn't. The Intruder used the AN/ASQ-155 computer, not a Mk 155. The AN/ASQ sequence is part of a totally different naming system.

Mk 68 GFCS wasn't digitized until at least 1975. I believe the Mk 155 was an analog ballistic computer that was the trajectory-computing part of the Mk 68. The modifications here would be different cogs or wiring to reflect the different ballistics of the 8-inch shell.
 
Ships that participate in amphibious warfare bombardment are in danger in age as we saw Ukraine widely accessible anti-ship missiles. Unlike land artillery the ability of a ship to "shoot-and-scoot" is extremly unlikely event because they are slow and easily noticeable. Or terror attacks like Cole. Amphibious warfare was rendered obsolete by Google Earth.

Expeditionary warfare requires stand off ranges to protect it from land borne threats. US Ships maintain expeditionary distances of 60-100 miles. Leaving it out range guns to fire. Even with new shells offering better ranges, a ship is just a mile off shore that only leaves 90 miles or so to exploit and some targets are far too inland. Baghdad was over 120 miles inland. As most Iran major cities like Tehran
- Ships that close to shore with deep drafts operate dangerously close littoral zones, vulnerable to running aground, hitting Shoals or underwater infrastructure, mines, anti ship missiles, hell even harassment. Even 50 caliber bullets well placed or cheap recoiless rockets can be very dangerous as they can rupture fuel lines, strike magazine or hit or damage sensitive electronics leaving ship blind or unable communicate. Most AN/designated electronics are highly visible.
- Naval ships haven't been equipped guns this large for years even if they did ad hoc or modification. Relegating a large gun for naval bombardment activities compared to higher rate of fire but smaller naval guns like Bofors 57, OTO 76mm that have multiple uses like point defense and anti boats which requires ship carry multiple caliber rounds aboard. The largest modern ship to have 155mm guns is zumwalt at 600 feet long few navies can afford.
- GOOGLE Ukraine war, the US Stockpile 155mm ammo consumed. Ukraine was firing 2-6 thousand rounds a day. A destroyer whose primary weapons are its missiles, its guns only have modest magazine. The zumwalt has 920 round magazine. So even if it could effect ranges 150 miles it would exhaust its rounds in days worth of fire missions.
 
Back when the Zumwalts were still in the design phase, there was a pretty large analysis of the globe. Roughly 90% of all human population lives within 100 nmi of the coast. So a ship that can reach to 100nmi/190-200km with a decently sized magazine would be highly effective.

A destroyer whose primary weapons are its missiles, its guns only have modest magazine. The zumwalt has 920 round magazine. So even if it could effect ranges 150 miles it would exhaust its rounds in days worth of fire missions.
Yes, that's known. And a known issue in full fire missions. But the Zumwalts weren't entirely built around that idea, but more around sniping with 155mm guns.

30 years ago, it was looking like the US was going to be doing global peacekeeping with no peer competitors for 30-50 years.
 
Yes, that's known. And a known issue in full fire missions. But the Zumwalts weren't entirely built around that idea, but more around sniping with 155mm guns.
In modern days, an unmanned monitor with 155-mm long-barrel gun mount, autoloading MRLS and kevlar armored deck might be a solution.
 
I'd look at the tankboat concept.

You could even tow this into the theatre.
 
In modern days, an unmanned monitor with 155-mm long-barrel gun mount, autoloading MRLS and kevlar armored deck might be a solution.
If you're doing that, you can make that a brown-water boat instead of green-water. Have it go up the rivers,
 
I'd look at the tankboat concept.

You could even tow this into the theatre.
The correct name is "bronekater", i.e. "armored motorboat".

Frankly, if you need artillery support ship, just buy the Project 21630 small artillery ships (Byuan-class corvette): Caspian_Corvette_Volgodonsk (1).jpg
River and sea capable, 500 ton max displacement, 2 meters max draught. Armed with fully automatic A-190 100-mm gun, autoloading Grad-M 122-mm MRLS, two AK-306 CIWS, "Gibka" mount for "Igla" MANPAD and two heavy 14.5-mm machineguns.
 
If you're doing that, you can make that a brown-water boat instead of green-water. Have it go up the rivers,
A possible solution: took a McClung-class LCM hull, section its vechicle bay, cover deck with kevlar. Install a 155-mm gun in automatic stabilized mount, a pair of MRLS launchers (in reloadable mounts - just a rails, along which the rocket pods wouls move), and a pair of Mk-70 container launchers for Tomahawks & ESSMs, if required. Add a SeaRAM and anti-drone measures (autocannons, heavy MG, drone interceptor launchers) in numbers. And you would have basically a monitor and "straights control" ship, that you could put into Hormuz without caring much about its loss.
 
30 years ago, it was looking like the US was going to be doing global peacekeeping with no peer competitors for 30-50 years.

They weren't necessarily wrong. China is only now these past couple years truly emerging as a peer rather than a near-peer threat.

It was just the part where they forgot to budget for the peacekeeping wars and the modernization at once.
 
It was just the part where they forgot to budget for the peacekeeping wars and the modernization at once.
Too true.

Didn't help that we spent many of those years operating on Continuing Resolutions of a previous year's budget and not a real budget bill.
 

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