US VSTOL Projects

[yasotay]

Wonderful stuff. Of course it being after 2001 I am still miffed at not having my Jetson's car. I recall the early 90's as such a wonderful time with all sorts of interesting rotorcraft possibilities. Now we have more money being spent on one fixed wing aircraft program than has been spent on all rotorcraft efforts in thirty years.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Greetings All -

I found both B&W and a color versions of this V/STOL Summary chart amongst the materials at the Greater St. Louis Air & Space Museum. The "wheel" is different than the one used on http://www.vstol.org/

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Great - it identifies a number of McDonnell-Douglas designs

 

[sublight]

Looking through this entire thread I cant help having a new found admiration for the F35b succeeding where so many before have come up short. Its truly an amazing accomplishment.

Of course, I am not a fan of the price, but that is fodder for the other thread....

 

[Colonial-Marine]

Looking through this entire thread I cant help having a new found admiration for the F35b succeeding where so many before have come up short. Its truly an amazing accomplishment.

Of course, I am not a fan of the price, but that is fodder for the other thread....

Well, Lockheed keeps insisting the F-35 won't cost much more than a Block 60 F-16, I don't know what to make of that but sure hope it is true.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

what is this ?;

http://books.google.com.eg/books?id=mejA_Bp7zz0C&pg=PA24&dq=convertiplane&lr=&cd=1#v=onepage&q=convertiplane&f=true

 

[lark]

Covertible aircraft concept designed by Prof.Rutowski
from the Wayne University...

source :Science et Vie - Hors Série- 1951.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Lark very much,

and here is also anther two VTOL projects.

http://books.google.com.eg/books?id=1t4DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA118&dq=convertiplane&lr=&cd=10#v=onepage&q=convertiplane&f=true

 

[Stargazer]

Covertible aircraft concept designed by Prof.Rutowski
from the Wayne University...

source :Science et Vie - Hors Série- 1951.

I wonder if there wasn't a typo here. Couldn't find any trace of a "Prof. Rutowski" but there seems to have been an "Edward A. RutKowski" at Wayne which seems to correspond.

 

[lark]

Typo it was....Rutkowski it must be.

 

[Jemiba]

The photo is especially interesting, as I've seen this wing planform
before. Is there a more precise date, when Hiller made those
experiments, than "9 years before ..." ?

 

[RanulfC]

The photo is especially interesting, as I've seen this wing planform
before. Is there a more precise date, when Hiller made those
experiments, than "9 years before ..." ?

Ok I did a site search but other than some side discussions, (and VERY nice artwork ) nothing on the Statodyne. Any chance of getting more info on that project?

Randy

 

[Triton]

Artist's impression of Ryan Aircraft Number: 4016.

Versatile Vertifan concept can give VTOL capability in high performance aircraft.

Source:
http://www.aiaa.org/tc/vstol/unbuilt/
V/STOL Challenge: A Success Story by Ryan. B-115; June 25, 1964.

 

[Pioneer]

Its a little sad that we still have not found any further information on this Boeing or Grumman program?
Designation, Specifications and drawings....etc
Has anyone come across these designs in their travels??? :'(

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Rafael]

This fighter http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2140.msg771.html#msg771 is a McDD-BAE proposal. But what model number and is there someone with a 3-view

 

[hesham]

Hi,

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20100021408_2010023259.pdf

 

[hesham]

Hi

a great find by my dear Paul (Overscan) about the V/STOL
concepts,and from the same source;

General Electric Heliplane
Martin M-380
Hiller wingless vehicle
Piasecki PA-22 ring-wing concept
,, PA-159B
Hiller tailsitter
Bell wingless
Stamp vehicle concept

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA175379&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

 

[Stargazer]

Fantastic series, hesham! Great find. I'm especially glad to see the Martin 380 as this was the company's only VTOL project that I've heard of.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

http://www.nps.edu/Academics/Programs/SEA/docs/SEA%203%20(exwar)/ch14.pdf

 

[Orionblamblam]

Why oh why do student designs almost always have to be so poorly illustrated? It's not so much that the drawings seem to indicate a lack of talent... but all too often a lack of giving a damn. If you have even a small design team, you're going to have *somebody* who can either draw by hand or CAD a servicable 3-view... if only they care enough to bother.

 

[AeroFranz]

I have to agree with you on the execrable quality of illustration of the report. Engineers are visual people and pics are of primary importance. I don't know how long it took these guys at the postgraduate school to write this thing, but it's very amateurish. I used to teach an intro aircraft design for sophomores and we'd have teams with a dedicated CAD driver who would teach himself CAD from scratch and by the end of the quarter he would produce something of this level or better, except it would be a solid model he could manipulate, not just 2D. It's not that hard.

My favorite concept must be their compound, the Fairey Gyrodyne that rear-ended a poor V-22 ;D

 

[unclejim]

Still interesting though

 

[AeroFranz]

Yeah, i don't mean to bash on the find. Hesham turns up a lot of stuff, with pearls here and there.

 

[flateric]

Why oh why do student designs almost always have to be so poorly illustrated?

I've heard after life - in hell - they are drafting lines on plotting paper

 

[Jemiba]

The fact, that an author is using poorly detailed and somewhat pixelated drawings
could be accepted, perhaps existing art work has to be used and maybe there
really isn't anybody to do better. Harder to accept for me are such obvious distortions,
something easily correctable even in a MS-Word document ! But, probably it's often just
the idea, that matters. :-\

 

[hesham]

Hi,

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA144214&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

 

[hesham]

And;

 

[Stargazer]

This is the same as the as-yet undesignated 1976 project attached below and already covered elsewhere in the thread I think.

This is no doubt related to the G-698 program (see second and third attachments). Both aircraft were part of the vast U.S. Navy "Type A" effort which came to naught in the end.

 

[Demon Lord Razgriz]

I remember seeing a picture of a RR Pegasus powered VTOL/STOVL Cargo plane a few months ago, but I can't find it anymore. Does anyone have anymore information on such a design?

 

[Matej]

Dornier Do-31

 

[hesham]

Hi,

please note,the DHC concept looks like a development of Rockwell XFV-12.

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA078909&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

 

[hesham]

And;

 

[Jemiba]

Are you sure, that the designs of the latest post are VSTOL designs ?
The F-4 with canards quite probably isn't and the other had STOL in
mind, but not VSTOL, I think.

 

[fightingirish]

Unknown US V/STOL transport with liftfan, found in Flug-Revue 1963 or 1964.
Maybe someone in this forum knows the right topic & model.
I'll try again if I found any more info mentioned in the article.

 

[Stargazer]

This one has Fairchild written all over it!!! But I guess it could also be Ryan.

 

[Steve Pace]

This one has Fairchild written all over it!!! But I guess it could also be Ryan.

Could it be a Breguet design? -SP

 

[Jemiba]

The caption "geometrical characteristics of the 10 tons transport" sounds, as it is
about just a concept, not an actual design. NASA maybe ?

 

[Stargazer]

This one has Fairchild written all over it!!! But I guess it could also be Ryan.

Could it be a Breguet design? -SP

Very unlikely. Breguet was actively engaging in the marketing of the Model 941 VTOL as the McDonnell Model 188A. Why would they have offered a different VTOL design through another US company? Doesn't make much sense to me.

When I say it has Fairchild and Ryan written all over it, I have evidence to back it up! Look at the following attachments:

• Ryan Model 2108 (?)
  Most likely Model 210-8 otherwise it's a completely non-standard designation. Compare the general shape of the fuselage, wing layout. Some obvious similarities here.
• Fairchild M-185
  A fuselage that is also kind of reminiscent of the artwork shown above.
• Ryan 235 Tern (Compass Cope R)
  Note the engine on top of fuselage and twin tail.
• Fairchild FH-129 Thunderbolt II (A-10)
  Well I don't need to comment on this one, the tail is almost identical to the mysterious design!

All things considered, I think it's very likely a Ryan...

 

[Steve Pace]

This one has Fairchild written all over it!!! But I guess it could also be Ryan.

Could it be a Breguet design? -SP

Very unlikely. Breguet was actively engaging in the marketing of the Model 941 VTOL as the McDonnell Model 188A. Why would they have offered a different VTOL design through another US company? Doesn't make much sense to me.

When I say it has Fairchild and Ryan written all over it, I have evidence to back it up! Look at the following attachments:

• Ryan Model 2108 (?)
  Most likely Model 210-8 otherwise it's a completely non-standard designation. Compare the general shape of the fuselage, wing layout. Some obvious similarities here.
• Fairchild M-185
  A fuselage that is also kind of reminiscent of the artwork shown above.
• Ryan 235 Tern (Compass Cope R)
  Note the engine on top of fuselage and twin tail.
• Fairchild FH-129 Thunderbolt II (A-10)
  Well I don't need to comment on this one, the tail is almost identical to the mysterious design!

All things considered, I think it's very likely a Ryan...

I'm simply speculating as are you because I frankly do not know whose design it is. -SP

 

[aim9xray]

A minor correction, the "Ryan 235" photo is actually of the mockup of the production Boeing B-Gull (Compass Cope B ). The Boeing mockup had a longer forward fuselage and a TF34 engine instead of the J97 used on the prototypes.