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US Supersonic Transport (SST) Program 1960-1971

galgot

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Post #249 , Skybolt mention this document AD478511 "NASA SCAT 15-F Feasibility Study", from 1965. Available here :
At the end there is a huge scalepan photocopied in 30 (!) pages, of the Boeing SCAT 15F-B7 study with a rotating canard surface.
I stitched the pages together ,makes a Ginormous image at full res, here a more reasonable sized one :

SCAF 15F-B7-HR-3000.jpg

Note the report also includes the SCAT 15F-B1 and B2 non-canarded ones, and detailed plan of the rotating canard of the B7
Wonder if these Boeing SCAT 15F studies ever had Boeing 733-xxx or 969-xxx designations...
 
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blackkite

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What a detailed and interesting report this is! Immediately downloaded.
I must check this carefully.
I can't find any front view drawing of the beautiful SCAT 15F in this report. Why?
Anyway thanks for sharing.
 

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galgot

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Yes these Boeing plans never include front views, but we have sections tho.
I've found this 733-290 plan on Reddit too, nice, too bad it's so lo res.
 

blackkite

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Thanks a lot galgot-san. Very beautiful. :)
 

blackkite

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Thanks a lot. Excellent!!

Please enjoy L2000 model. You can enlarge model picture by pressing bottom '+' mark after click model picture. Also you can move model picture by mouse.

 

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blackkite

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1964: SUPERSONIC TRANSPORT (SST)
MOT 1964: SUPERSONIC TRANSPORT (SST): Lockheed Aircraft executive Robert Bailey at desk, SOT talking about commercial L-2000 model on desk, 1800 to 2000 mph, development, challenges for exterior heat, propulsion system, REVERSE PAN Edge of Earth space. Note: Boeing 2702 won.


 
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blackkite

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Many years ago now I saw a broken Pacmin model of a Boeing 2707 300 in Airlift livery on Ebay. Recently I saw an Air New Zealand (not an optionholder) variant on Picclick.
It would be interesting to know from anyone with Pacmin connections if they kept records of the liveries made
 

blackkite

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What is the objective of this model?
Is this model had engines?
 

blackkite

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galgot

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Hi! 733-94.
This drawing title is mach2 SST? I think this design was mach3 SST.

What is 969 series?

From what I understand,
969-XXX were internal Boeing designations for some of the SST configurations.
Like the 733-XXX designations. Seems only when Boeing got awarded the contract did they assigned commercial Boeing 2707-XXX names, but Boeing 2707-300 still had 733-633 internal designation. the Boeing 2707 and 2707-100 and 200 were in the 733-4XX serie apparently, first one being 733-467.

Blackkite-San, please could you tell me what this means :
1.jpg
2.jpg
(or the all Japanese timeline text :p)
I’ve tried passing these into an OCR, then through a translator, but it gives me a gibberish about sea food and house construction… hardly SST related.
 

blackkite

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Late 1957

The technology developed in the WS-110A (B-70) bomber design competition and the core engineers in the design competition were gathered to form the first Boeing SST design team.

1960

In order to compare both the delta wing plan and the variable swept wing plan, Boeing created two competitive design teams in-house and conducted a competitive design. As a result of comparing the competition results, Boeing considered that the good low speed performance of the variable swept wing was very advantageous.

Mid 1963

NASA requested Boeing and Lockheed to conduct a comparative study on the four plans SCAT17, SCAT4, SCAT16, and SCAT15.

From early 1964 to mid-1964, Phase I

FAA requested each aircraft manufacturer in the US to propose a supersonic passenger aircraft. FAA selected the proposals of Boeing and Lockheed from the development proposals of each aircraft manufacturer and started the design competition for practical supersonic passenger aircraft.

Late 1964, Phase IIA

1965, Phase IIB

Early 1966, Phase IIC

Boeing reviewed and evaluated the delta wing aircraft with tails based on design proposal 733-204, but did not get much improvement and did not go deep.

Late 1966

Boeing won the SST design competition because the B2707-100 design proposal was advantageous at low speeds.

Late 1967 to early 1968, Phase III

Boeing decided to review the basic form of the SST because the B2707 series design proposal was stuck, and reexamined the variable swept wing plan, the delta wing plan, the SCAT15 plan.

Mid 1968

Boeing selected three proposals 969-302, 969-404B, and 969-320B that satisfy the requirements for payload, cruising range, safety, etc. after three months of study.
 

blackkite

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I will try to translate Japanese explanation of each SSTdesign into English.
Give me time for a while.
 

galgot

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I will try to translate Japanese explanation of each SSTdesign into English.
Give me time for a while.
Thank you very much ! take your time:) no hurry.
The Japanese timeline image seems to have much more detailed explanations than the one in english.
 
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blackkite

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733-101

This is the first proposal for Boeing's variable swept wing SST. This plan was created based on research on TFX (F111) and arrow wings, which Boeing Co. and NASA conducted.

733-204

During Phase I, Boeing considered how far a good SST could be made using fixed delta wing. As a result of the examination, the proposal 733-204 satisfied the target value in the payload and cruising range, but the low speed performance did not satisfy the target value.

From 733-197 to 733-290

SCAT15F advanced aerodynamic design was used to improve from 733-197 to 733-290.

SCAT15F

NASA continued research on fixed arrow wings the SCAT15F proposal.

SCAT15F

Boeing reassessed NASA's SCAT15F proposal. The payload and cruising range were excellent, but the low speed performance was poor and the development risk was large, so it was concluded that this scheme was disadvantageous.

733-467

Boeing reexamined various SST configurations because the 733-290 type wing-tail separation type variable swept wing plan got stuck due to exhaust and tail interference problems. As a result, the draft 733-290 was integrated with the good part of SCAT15 to create the draft 733-467.

B2707-200

Boeing has proceeded with design studies such as B2707, B2707-100, and B2707-200, and solved problems such as steering stability. However, the weight increased and the cruising performance could not satisfy the required value.

SAT15F

Boeing added a horizontal tail to improve the vertical maneuverability of the SCAT15F to the standard value.

962-302

The delta wing with tail wing, 969-302, has the best payload and cruising performance because it can reduce its own weight. Since the wing span was large and the swept angle was small, the low speed performance was good.

969-404

The 969-404 proposal for the separate tail and wing variable swept wing has the best landing performance. However, there is a large risk of interference between the tail and exhaust, and it is structurally complex.

969-320

The 969-320 proposal based on SCAT15 could have the best payload and range, but the low speed performance was the worst. In addition, there was a significant decrease in handling stability due to aircraft deflection. Boeing, however, continued to consider the 969-320 proposal as a baseline for aerodynamic technology, including solutions for low-speed performance.

B2707-300

Boeing compared the 969-302, 969-320, and 969-402 plans, and selected the B2707-300 as the basic form of SST trial production.

https://flic.kr/p/TChRfj
Excellent 2707-300 pictures here.
 
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Archibald

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I recently had a crush on the SCAT-15F. It really was an aerodynamic wonder with a L/D of 10 against 7 for all the others, Concorde and Boeing included. NASA Langley had refined it over and over and it was a very fine aerodynamic job they had done. Even today it would held its ground as far as supersonic L/D goes.

But, alas, once out of the wind tunnel as mentionned

the low speed performance was poor
low speed handling was vicious.
Basically the aircraft stall was a SOB and it would slam into the ground at landing, faster than human reaction time.
I'm not sure even an analog FBW like Concorde could tame that beast. Yet in May 1972 flew a NASA Crusader with the first ever digital FBW, courtesy of former LM pilot Neil Armstrong now at NASA HQ.
What might have been...
 
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Archibald

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That's Lockheed L-2000 mockup isn't it ? first time I saw it (in a magazine 25 years ago) with the Concorde shape and the tricolour on the tail I assumed it was... a Concorde :p

SCAT-15F in Google images. What a beauty... o_O

eeb8da78559d66f0806174ddc49dd9e8.jpg

I.need.a.1/72.scale.model.of.this.on.my.desk. Look at the wing trailing-edge, how it delicately curves near the engine nozzles... an aerodynamic wonder, I told yah.

It is a freakkin' Adriana Karambeu of aircraft.
 
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blackkite

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galgot

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Hi!
What a large wing leading edge flap!! Slit at wing root?
Yes. Also one interesting stuff on the SCAT-15F-B7 from document AD478511 "NASA SCAT 15-F Feasibility Study" posted here #961 ,
is that a section of the leading edge slat seems to rotate upward :
SCAT-15F-B7 leadingedge.png

never seen that before...
 

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blackkite

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blackkite

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Hi NAC-60!


More model pictures here, DELTA FLIGHT MUSEUM

Interesting Russian site.

Popular science.

Wing trailing edge shape is interesting.
 

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MaxLegroom

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Finally Boing added horizontal tail stabilizer and front wing with flap to the SCAT15F.


Please enjoy Miss SST.
I remember Miss SST and the made for TV movie that came from. As I also recall, one way they tried to make the plane for the movie look different from the Lockheed SST was to hang a set of 747 engines off of it. I'm not sure they didn't use a L-2000 cockpit mockup for the movie set as well, though.
 
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