Ukrainian Conflict NEWS ONLY !!!!

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overscan (PaulMM) said:
lancer21 said:
sublight is back said:
lancer21 said:
I know some people are desperate to push their pro-american views on everything, especially now Ukraine,
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A sovereign nation being invaded is a "pro American" view? Sir, I believe you might be on the wrong planet.....
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If i reply to your comment in kind, "sir", this will prove exactly why this thread should be closed. So i will contain myself for now and wait until it will be closed, with the way it's going.
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It is difficult to completely ignore the existence of armed conflict in Europe on a forum where there are a bunch of (primarily Western) people discussing military technology, and blocking this topic will inevitably result in spillover into other topics about the use of specific aircraft, tanks etc.

There are multiple viewpoints on the whys and wherefores of this conflict. Its not quite the equivalent of Germany invading France due to the complex history of the region. I don't see any value in discussing that - the sides are too strongly divided. Chinese aviation forums are cheering on the Russians with great satisfaction for example, which makes reading them hard to stomach for a Western audience at present.

Let's stick to reporting what is happening and put all relevant material in the one topic, and people can avoid it if they want.
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... just a small historical side note in this already heated discussion - France declared war along with UK on Germany, not vice versa (after Germany invaded Poland).
 
TinWing said:
haavarla said:
Trident said:
Opportunistic Minnow said:
Never, ever relinquish your nuclear arsenal.
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Not sure that truly follows. The Soviet nukes on Ukrainian territory were about as much use as one of my namesake missiles would be to myself in my garden shed. I don't think the government of Ukraine ever had the operational sovereignty (as in command & control system access) to actually authorize their use. Unfortunately the security guarantees extended in exchange for relinquishing them have repeatedly proved to be just as worthless :(
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That is right on a dime! All those Nukes in Ukraine was held at sites where Soviet/Russians crew was guarding them. And the Key control for actually controlling the Nukes in Ukraine was.. wait for it.. In Moscow somewhere.
Do the Ukraine could not get to them and if they somehow did, they could not decrypt them without keycodes
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The real risk was in proliferation, which is exactly why the Clinton administration paid for the disposal of said nukes in Ukraine. It was a great success.
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In the treaty materializing this "great success", wasn't there a clause that in exchange for Ukraine renouncing its nukes, Ukraine's security was guaranteed by the USA and other signatories?

I believe there was, but frankly my memory is hazy on this specific point. And I don't know where to verify it.
If there was, the current US policy would be a breach of their obligations according to that treaty.

My point here is not to turn the discussion to politics, it is to reinforce Opportunistic Minnow's point "never, ever relinquish your nuclear arsenal". Security treaties with Western countries tend to not be worth much, and to have a date of peremption equal to that of next elections...

Anyhoo. Can anyone confirm whether or not there was a clause whereby the USA/etc garantee Ukraine's security?
 
There's no obligation to provide military defense in the Budapest Memorandum.

Note that Russia is also a signatory, see how that worked out.

It's hard to imagine a realistic scenario where retaining those weapons would make the world or Ukraine safer.
 
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Easy on the politics there.

Is it fair to say at this point that most of the Ukrainians mechanized units have been left without their MBT and support trucks?

Its not that they all got blown up, but fuel shortage and spare parts as they break down is an issue. On both sides actually. Its just that Russia has a lot more.

Lots of the halted colums we see on Youtube, they seems intact. But at a later time they were burning, eighter tourched, or destroyed by eighter side.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14gVDF2b1vA

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZZ7X7bde-A


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hKij7KnLSk
 
 
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Not sure what the French did way back when but the UK gave an ultimatum and a timeline to cease offensive operations. This was not met so war was a natural progression and it could be said that Germany of the NAZI era declared war by not meeting the conditions of the ultimatum. Confucius enough?
 
IMOHO the CAP and RQ-4 flights boarding Airways and shipping lanes could clearly delimits, secure and be ready to support civilian traffic. Nobody wants another MH-17 or KAL-007. The deployment of F-35 would be a notable plus if that was the intended strategy.
 
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Opportunistic Minnow said:
Never, ever relinquish your nuclear arsenal.
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Sigh. For those who responded to this to "correct" me: at the time of posting, this thread was called lessons from the Ukrainian conflict or somesuch. The above post wasn't for Ukraine, it was a lesson for "us", the western powers. I'm fully aware of the limitations of the Ukrainian deterrent, as was, thank you. Context is key!

Thus, it was a simple value judgement on possessing a nuclear deterrent and while it will no doubt be disagreed with, it will be held regardless....
 
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jeffb said:
Can't help but think that the Russians are screwed if they don't find a way to close the Polish border and stop the Ukrainians resupplying.
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Well this is the ticklish bit, it only takes a couple of stray missiles to hit something over the border and Poland is going to get grumpy pretty fast. Plus refugee columns and foreign arms convoys don't make a good mix.
And yet its inconceivable that Russia won't make some attempt to sever these lines of communication, especially if Russian forces do bog down.

I keep wondering when someone is going to donate their old ex-Soviet/Russian armoured vehicles or MiGs. ATGWs and Stingers are all well and good but an army can't fight with just shoulder-fired missiles and attrition isn't going to go in the Ukraine's favour.

Just to throw my two-pence worth into the Antonov saga - the 1990s were about consolidating European manufacturing, not diversifying it. And to be honest cash strapped Ukraine didn't have R&D resources and Soviet kit wasn't exactly high up on reliability stakes and had a tainted reputation in the markets. Even Czech and Polish companies suffered, those that survived now build Western aircraft or have been forced out of business and others gave up the ghost (we could add IAR and Soko into this sorry tale too). There is an expanding market in light civil aviation though in both nations - but the top end is grist for the Western shareholders mill.
 
To spoof the Monty Pythons (related to that Bayraktar thing I was just unaware of only three days ago)

"That drone is dynamite !" it seems Turkey nascent aerospace industry has it very first "smashing hit" with that one. :eek:
:eek:
 
www.tbsnews.net

Russia gives Ukraine deadline for decision on talks in Belarus

"As soon as we receive this confirmation, we shall immediately set off to meet our counterparts in the negotiations,” Medinsky said. “We stand for peace.”
www.tbsnews.net www.tbsnews.net
Russia has given Ukrainian officials a deadline of 3 p.m. local time (7 a.m. ET) on Sunday to decide whether to meet for talks in the Belarusian city of Gomel.

"If the talks are rejected, the Ukrainian side shall bear all responsibility for bloodshed," Medinsky said. "But we remain here until 15:00 waiting for a response from the Ukrainian side."
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www.thetelegraph.com

Live updates: Germany boosts defense budget above 2% of GDP

The latest on the Russia's invasion of Ukraine:
www.thetelegraph.com www.thetelegraph.com
BERLIN — German Chancellor Olaf Scholz says Germany is committing 100 billion euros ($112.7 billion) to a special fund for its armed forces, raising its defense spending above 2% of its GDP.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1497898218805501954
View: https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1497898218805501954
https://twitter.com/x/status/1497895523331805188
View: https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1497895523331805188
https://twitter.com/x/status/1497903640777998341
View: https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1497903640777998341
 
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Aeroflot air map of doom. Waiting for my homeplace (Bordeaux) to declare state of war with them and close their airspace. :D
:D:D:p:p:p:p
(and they would better not trying to enter French airspace via Marseille. That AK-47 fest in Kiev, you know, 18 000 of them passed to citizens: in Marseille it's daily business routine for a long time).
 
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aonestudio said:
www.tbsnews.net

Russia gives Ukraine deadline for decision on talks in Belarus

"As soon as we receive this confirmation, we shall immediately set off to meet our counterparts in the negotiations,” Medinsky said. “We stand for peace.”
www.tbsnews.net www.tbsnews.net
Russia has given Ukrainian officials a deadline of 3 p.m. local time (7 a.m. ET) on Sunday to decide whether to meet for talks in the Belarusian city of Gomel.

"If the talks are rejected, the Ukrainian side shall bear all responsibility for bloodshed," Medinsky said. "But we remain here until 15:00 waiting for a response from the Ukrainian side."
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www.thetelegraph.com

Live updates: Germany boosts defense budget above 2% of GDP

The latest on the Russia's invasion of Ukraine:
www.thetelegraph.com www.thetelegraph.com
BERLIN — German Chancellor Olaf Scholz says Germany is committing 100 billion euros ($112.7 billion) to a special fund for its armed forces, raising its defense spending above 2% of its GDP.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1497898218805501954
View: https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1497898218805501954
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Looks like PDU-215 control panel
SmartSelect_20220227-121518_Chrome.jpg
 
Ukraine vice prime minister requested Elon Musk to deploy starlink which he accepted with promise "more terminals en route"

www.foxbusiness.com

Elon Musk says Starlink is active in Ukraine amid internet disruptions

SpaceX founder Elon Musk said Saturday evening that the company's Starlink satellites are now active in Ukraine to alleviate some of the connectivity challenges the country is facing amid the Russia invasion.
www.foxbusiness.com www.foxbusiness.com
 
sublight is back said:
GTX said:
www.abc.net.au

Here's why the West doesn't know how to fight Putin's Ukraine war

As globalisation rises in the West, Vladimir Putin is encouraging the return of the tribe. He sees the West's individualism as a weakness and his approach has set the world ablaze, writes Stan Grant.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
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This article is laughable. The world has moved on to the Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates types, these guys are all Nikita Khrushchev and Fidel Castro nostalgic.
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But it is the Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates types who are the frauds. They are far more interested in themselves, their massive egos, and how many admirers they can accrue. They waste money & resources on futile schemes of no value to the vast majority of people.
The conflict between Russia & the Ukraine - and all the rest of the world - is real, is impactful, is horrific, and massively wasteful of other people's money, resources, and futures. This war is very very sad, a lesson in real history, a massive mistake. I love both nations and their peoples. I pray constantly that it will end soon, with minimum loss of life on both sides.
 
haavarla said:
TinWing said:
haavarla said:
edwest2 said:
The Russians had a lot of reconnaissance regarding major targets. I am concerned about Poland. Since a neighbor, Belarus -- White Russia -- was involved, the U.S. is sending in troops to discourage further Russian mischief, and White Russian.
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umm.. which helps the Ukrainians in what way exactly here?
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I think the Ukrainians are now facing the consequences of 30 years of economic and demographic decline. They haven’t been able to perform a census since 2001, but the population in that year of 44 million might only be 35 million in 2022 due to falling birthrates, economic emigration and a general sense of despair. There is no help for the Ukrainians. To quote Julius Caesar, “The die is cast.”

Having said all of that, the United States and the EU could have revitalized Antonov with orders after 2014. The same is true of Motors Sich. Instead of ordering something useful, like a new production run of An-124s, or making Motors Sich a major subcontractor for Western gas turbine engines, nothing was done except for throwing some money to the political class. Ukraine had a lot of latent productive capacity, all of which was neglected after 2014.
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Well i am sure the Lobbyist of Boeing and Airbus, all the same is very happy about the Antonov decline. One less competitor to worry about
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I doubt either one lost much sleep at night over Antonov.
 
TomcatViP said:
IMOHO the CAP and RQ-4 flights boarding Airways and shipping lanes could clearly delimits, secure and be ready to support civilian traffic. Nobody wants another MH-17 or KAL-007. The deployment of F-35 would be a notable plus if that was the intended strategy.
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Romania:
skrue4f216k81.jpg

Poland:

rgofyb77etj81.jpg
 
Unlikely. If we see an air exclusion zone our involvement is more likely which MIGHT entail some escalation.
 
Vlad woke up the Germans:
abcnews.go.com

EU shuts airspace to Russian airlines, will buy Ukraine arms

The European Union is closing its airspace to Russian airlines, spending hundreds of million of dollars to supply weapons to Ukraine and is banning some pro-Kremlin media outlets in response to Russia’s invasion
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com
 
TOS-1 platoons of the Chemical Troops reached Kharkiv last night (US time) and began firing. Russian troops are still stalled out around the city and some battalions are isolating and going around to keep pressure on Kyiv.

Kharkiv will probably not be taken soon because the main effort is shifting to Kyiv. Other major urban areas are being isolated and bypassed so they stop being threats to the axes of advance while heavy artillery arrives to keep Ukrainians from breaking out.

In other news Azov battalion has begun coating their cartridges in pig's fat to fight Kadyrovsty. That's not a joke.
 
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When all this is over Putin will have reinforced his leadership and will continue to ride the tiger diverting public opinion from the real problems of his country, the Western media will change the subject (when the US left Vietnam no journalist stayed to tell what happened there), the United Nations and NATO will have once again demonstrated their uselessness but will continue to exist without having to justify their existence and the Europeans will find that the cost of energy will have increased by 25% next winter. Everyone will gain a little more time until something happens that they can't stop.:(
 
Kat Tsun said:
TOS-1 platoons of the Chemical Troops reached Kharkiv last night (US time) and began firing. Russian troops are still stalled out around the city and some battalions are isolating and going around to keep pressure on Kyiv.

Kharkiv will probably not be taken soon because the main effort is shifting to Kyiv. Other major urban areas are being isolated and bypassed so they stop being threats to the axes of advance while heavy artillery arrives to keep Ukrainians from breaking out.

In other news Azov battalion has begun coating their cartridges in pig's fat to fight Kadyrovsty. That's not a joke.
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Ukrainian forces destroy convoy of 56 Chechen tanks, kill general near Kyiv - report | The Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com
 
Russia has put the "nuclear deterrent troops" on alert. The flight time to Washington is 30 minutes
Perhaps there will soon be only Chinese on this planet

31-4-15.jpg_Thumbnail0.jpg
 
Nuclear Forces are the most Loyal and reliable.........

Which might be explained by rumours of revolts, resignations and the sudden loss of fuel in previously fuelled up vehicles......
 
Basil said:

... just a small historical side note in this already heated discussion - France declared war along with UK on Germany, not vice versa (after Germany invaded Poland).
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Yes, France and Britain should intervene... oh wait. Wrong century.
 
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It has been suggested that Biden might unleash the cyber warfare division to do to Putin what his puppets have done to everyone else for years and go several steps further. Stop trains, shut down power stations.... This is what the real world war three looks like. NOT invading troops or nuclear missiles.
 
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