Ukrainian Conflict NEWS ONLY !!!!

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sublight is back said:
overscan (PaulMM) said:
Chinese aviation forums are cheering on the Russians with great satisfaction for example, which makes reading them hard to stomach for a Western audience at present.
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I wish you had not brought that to my attention.
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You learned it. You can't unlearn it.

The world is borked. Always has been. It's in moments of crisis that you find out just how screwball this planet can be.
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
If he explains it, the explanation will be political in nature, which violates the forum rules.
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I'd just like to understand the logic of "I am opposed to a sovereign nation being conquered for no good reason" = "pro-American."

Hmmm. Wait. Actually, I see it. Both sides of that equation are good, rational positions to take. Never mind, I understand now, no further need to explain. Carry on.
 
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overscan (PaulMM) said:
Orionblamblam said:
lancer21 said:
sublight is back said:
lancer21 said:
I know some people are desperate to push their pro-american views on everything, especially now Ukraine,
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A sovereign nation being invaded is a "pro American" view? Sir, I believe you might be on the wrong planet.....
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If i reply to your comment in kind, "sir", this will prove exactly why this thread should be closed.
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Explaining why being opposed to Ukraine being conquered is "pro American" means the thread should be closed?
Click to expand...
If he explains it, the explanation will be political in nature, which violates the forum rules.
Click to expand...
Well, this isn't political:

 
sferrin said:
I'm 100% certain usual suspects are squealing to the mods just because you said something that made them uncomfortable.
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Quite possible. But the point here, at least for me, is that we have a war between Country A and Country B, with Country C being completely uninvolved... and yet people are mad at Country C for reasons that don't seem to make a whole lot of sense. It's a diversion from the point of the thread, though.

As an attempt at getting back on course:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLPoiLizgqc


The "Ghost of Kyiv" is supposed to be a Ukrainian MiG pilot who reportedly shot down five or six Russian jets in a day. The problem is... the evidence for this could *easily* be faked footage. We have now gotten to the point with technology that the ENTIRE FRIGGEN WAR could be entirely faked, and most of the planet could be fooled. For all we know, Ukraine is currently having a giant Festivus party, but a bunch of rascally wargame simmers and hackers have invented the entire war. Did they actually do so? Of course not. But a lot of it *could* and probably *is* being faked. Consequently, not only do we have to deal with the usual fog of war, with games of "telephone" messing up the facts and people exaggerating and outright telling lies... now the war can be lied about visually. You *know* it's going to happen.

Science Fiction has taught us that, if nothing else. Remember how Ben Richards fired upon that Bakersfield food riot? Expect a lot of the same sort of thing to happen here. That video you just posted of a fighter shooting near a house? It *could* be fake. It would be in the interests of Ukrainians to depict scenes of Russians committing war crimes or atrocities against Ukrainian civilians. it is in the interests of Russians to depict the Ukrainians as a bunch of Nazis. CGI, flight simulators and Deep Fakes are going to make this and all future wars a hell of a mess to figure out, especially in real time.
 
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At least one of the videos I've seen was a capture from a video game. As much as I'd like it to be true, I find the notion that a solitary pilot has six kills, when the rest of the Ukrainian air force appears to be completely MIA, unlikely.
 
sferrin said:
overscan (PaulMM) said:
Orionblamblam said:
lancer21 said:
sublight is back said:
lancer21 said:
I know some people are desperate to push their pro-american views on everything, especially now Ukraine,
Click to expand...

A sovereign nation being invaded is a "pro American" view? Sir, I believe you might be on the wrong planet.....
Click to expand...
If i reply to your comment in kind, "sir", this will prove exactly why this thread should be closed.
Click to expand...
Explaining why being opposed to Ukraine being conquered is "pro American" means the thread should be closed?
Click to expand...
If he explains it, the explanation will be political in nature, which violates the forum rules.
Click to expand...
Well, this isn't political:

Click to expand...

That's a Ukrainian MiG-29. Nothing fake about that video, unlike that ridiculous Ghost of Kiev tale.
 
sferrin said:
At least one of the videos I've seen was a capture from a video game. As much as I'd like it to be true, I find the notion that a solitary pilot has six kills, when the rest of the Ukrainian air force appears to be completely MIA, unlikely.
Click to expand...

Indeed. However, this would be the sort of situation where it *could* happen. If the moment the Russian air force showed up, the entire Ukrainian air force scarpered off to parts unknown, that would mean that every aircraft in the sky would be Russian. This makes target selection for that One Crazy Ukrainian pilot easy... and it means that, at least initially, the Russians might be complacent and then confused. The only airplane trying to shoot them down looks just like one of their own... heck, it might even be painted t look Russian for all I know. So for a *short* time "Ghost" could run riot. It wouldn't last long, though.

Easier to fake it in DCS.
 
TR1 said:
sferrin said:
overscan (PaulMM) said:
Orionblamblam said:
lancer21 said:
sublight is back said:
lancer21 said:
I know some people are desperate to push their pro-american views on everything, especially now Ukraine,
Click to expand...

A sovereign nation being invaded is a "pro American" view? Sir, I believe you might be on the wrong planet.....
Click to expand...
If i reply to your comment in kind, "sir", this will prove exactly why this thread should be closed.
Click to expand...
Explaining why being opposed to Ukraine being conquered is "pro American" means the thread should be closed?
Click to expand...
If he explains it, the explanation will be political in nature, which violates the forum rules.
Click to expand...
Well, this isn't political:

Click to expand...

That's a Ukrainian MiG-29. Nothing fake about that video, unlike that ridiculous Ghost of Kiev tale.
Click to expand...
How do you know it's a Ukrainian MiG-29 and not a Russian one?
 
sferrin said:
TR1 said:
That's a Ukrainian MiG-29. Nothing fake about that video, unlike that ridiculous Ghost of Kiev tale.
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How do you know it's a Ukrainian MiG-29 and not a Russian one?
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There hasn't been a single Russian MiG-29 seen in action over Ukraine. It is not even kept in front line service aside from Armenia, just training and aggressor units. Ukranian MiG-29s (one or two) on the other hand were flying around in other videos in the area (you can tell by their distinctive camo).
 
jeffb said:
A lot of hyperventilating on twitter (naturally) but I'd be surprised if AFV drivers aren't taught to crush cars that try to drive up to them. You can pack a lot of explosives into a mid-sized car and many are detonated manually.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1497230849091117057
View: https://twitter.com/grantstern/status/1497230849091117057?s=20&t=VTTz1VIYOQ9kw9XE9CPrIA
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Another case of ...purposeful misinformation(not by you, just to be clear).

That is a Ukranian Strela-10, which panicked after Ukranians shot up their own truck nearby. They thought it was full of Russian sabetuers in Ukranian uniforms, but after checking out the dead bodies realized they were shooting their own.

Here is a video of the truck postmortem:
t.me

Военный Осведомитель

В Оболони показали несколько убитых солдат в форме ВСУ, многих взяли в плен. Изначально сообщалось, что данные солдаты российские, которые переоделись в украинскую форму. Сейчас украинские источники говорят, что водители машин были идентифицированы и они оказались украинскими военными. Похоже...
t.me t.me

The Ukranian gentleman talking explains it, but I translated the gist.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrUlB-1XqUs

Same Strela, right after the car hit. Middle of Kiev, its obviously not a Russian vehicle.

You bring up a good point though. Civilians are all over the place and getting way too casually close to military vehicles. At what point will that end badly?
 
There is also a lot of bs on twitter (naturally)...

This struck me as odd though, of course it's probably just a file photo that someone's trying to be cute with.
ID?

1645846150051.png
 
TR1 said:
jeffb said:
A lot of hyperventilating on twitter (naturally) but I'd be surprised if AFV drivers aren't taught to crush cars that try to drive up to them. You can pack a lot of explosives into a mid-sized car and many are detonated manually.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1497230849091117057
View: https://twitter.com/grantstern/status/1497230849091117057?s=20&t=VTTz1VIYOQ9kw9XE9CPrIA
Click to expand...

Another case of ...purposeful misinformation(not by you, just to be clear).

That is a Ukranian Strela-10, which panicked after Ukranians shot up their own truck nearby. They thought it was full of Russian sabetuers in Ukranian uniforms, but after checking out the dead bodies realized they were shooting their own.

Here is a video of the truck postmortem:
t.me

Военный Осведомитель

В Оболони показали несколько убитых солдат в форме ВСУ, многих взяли в плен. Изначально сообщалось, что данные солдаты российские, которые переоделись в украинскую форму. Сейчас украинские источники говорят, что водители машин были идентифицированы и они оказались украинскими военными. Похоже...
t.me t.me

The Ukranian gentleman talking explains it, but I translated the gist.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrUlB-1XqUs

Same Strela, right after the car hit. Middle of Kiev, its obviously not a Russian vehicle.

You bring up a good point though. Civilians are all over the place and getting way too casually close to military vehicles. At what point will that end badly?
Click to expand...

At what point will that end badly? Almost immediately I'd say. Remember all those nice Iraqi families that got blown to bits because they got too close to the back of truck full of grunts? Seeing a lot of video of Ukrainian civilians in the street saying "the Russians are shooting at us."
 
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jeffb said:
TR1 said:
jeffb said:
gh. Civilians are all over the place and getting way too casually close to military vehicles. At what point will that end badly?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

At what point will that end badly? Almost immediately I'd say. Remember all those nice Iraqi families that got blown to bits because they got to close to the back of truck full of grunts? Seeing a lot of video of Ukrainian civilians in the street saying "the Russians are shooting at us."
Click to expand...
I was thinking exactly of those Iraqis driving by Thunder Runs or whatnot and getting machine gunned for their trouble.

So far this conflict has been very light on civilian casualties, considering the scale of fighting is not localized. No comparison to Grozny.
Hopefully it stays that way.
 
TR1 said:
jeffb said:
TR1 said:
jeffb said:
gh. Civilians are all over the place and getting way too casually close to military vehicles. At what point will that end badly?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

At what point will that end badly? Almost immediately I'd say. Remember all those nice Iraqi families that got blown to bits because they got to close to the back of truck full of grunts? Seeing a lot of video of Ukrainian civilians in the street saying "the Russians are shooting at us."
Click to expand...
I was thinking exactly of those Iraqis driving by Thunder Runs or whatnot and getting machine gunned for their trouble.

So far this conflict has been very light on civilian casualties, considering the scale of fighting is not localized. No comparison to Grozny.
Hopefully it stays that way.
Click to expand...
Hopefully.
 
TR1 said:
So far this conflict has been very light on civilian casualties, considering the scale of fighting is not localized. No comparison to Grozny.
Hopefully it stays that way.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that Putin is selling this little endeavor as "let's free our brother Ukrainian from evil Nazi overlords" or some such, as opposed to "let's lay a beatdown on those evil Foreignistanis." Consequently, it's in Russias best interest to keep the visible atrocities to a minimum. It's in the Ukrainian interest to broadcast atrocities far and wide, especially into Russia. Those of you who have read your "tMiaHM" will remember that one valuable strategy of an occupied people trying to free themselves from a bigger power populated by people who don't like atrocities, is to goad the occupiers into committing recordable and broadcastable atrocities.
 
Orionblamblam said:
lancer21 said:
sublight is back said:
lancer21 said:
I know some people are desperate to push their pro-american views on everything, especially now Ukraine,
Click to expand...

A sovereign nation being invaded is a "pro American" view? Sir, I believe you might be on the wrong planet.....
Click to expand...
If i reply to your comment in kind, "sir", this will prove exactly why this thread should be closed.
Click to expand...
Explaining why being opposed to Ukraine being conquered is "pro American" means the thread should be closed?
Click to expand...

There is a difference between analyzing violations of international legal norms... and advocating for a political position. Of course, we all have them, and many of us feel quite strongly.

However, people have been connecting these events to not just the position of their countries government - but also their country's internal politics (e.g. claims of weakness for pursuing diplomatic solutions, our 'emboldening' of Putin by not being more like him etc.)

This isn't analysis of military technology or tactics, this is the use of the tragedy in Ukraine to further largely unrelated domestic political agendas. My own instinct is that such posts should be removed if we're to have any kind of reasonable discussion.
 
The thread about Ukrainian conflict being locked, I can't ask there. I hope asking this way is OK.

What are decently reliable sources of photos about the current military operations in the Ukraine?
I'm looking for just photos, not comments or analysis.
Reliable in the sense of not faked, not re-used from another situation, etc.

I am primarily looking for pictures of tanks, APCs, SPGs, etc. I don't care whether the site supports one side or the other, as long as the photos and captions are not fakes.

Any pointers?
 
There is no such. Both sides flood the net with propaganda, and millions of private citizens are "helping" by spreading rumors and fakes.
 
Topic is re-opened. I found a useful feature in Xenforo - thread bans. I can block users from posting in specific topics.

RULES

  1. Avoid politics where possible, especially wandering off into US politics.
  2. Don't post memes or junk posts.
  3. Stick to verifiably factual information where possible.
  4. Failure to comply will see you banned from replying to the topic.
 
The stuff I've seen has been on news sites in the main, and even they can be spoofed by fakes. But at least there is some kind of filter. Given the high amount of reuse of old digital images its a mammoth task to sift things.
Besides 'kill shots' of burned out tanks and shot down aircraft are probably not what we'd want to encourage.

Basically take any bit of Soviet kit designed in the 1970s and it's there and you've seen it before.
(Not a criticism, saw on the BBC last night FV432s being trucked around Germany)
 
 
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1497535894093541380
View: https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1497535894093541380

https://twitter.com/x/status/1497534357845823491
View: https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1497534357845823491

www.oryxspioenkop.com

Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The Russian Invasion Of Ukraine

www.oryxspioenkop.com www.oryxspioenkop.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1497516979753668609
View: https://twitter.com/Defensie/status/1497516979753668609

www.dutchnews.nl

The Netherlands to supply 200 Stinger missiles to Ukraine - DutchNews.nl

The Netherlands has agreed to ship 200 Stinger air defence missiles to Ukraine as quickly as it can, following a request by the Ukrainian government, the cabinet has agreed. ‘There was a careful but, given the circumstances, shortened check to make sure this meets weapons exports criteria,’...
www.dutchnews.nl www.dutchnews.nl

Greece's health ministry is sending medicines and medical supplies to Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1497546747362648069
View: https://twitter.com/thanosplevris/status/1497546747362648069

www.reuters.com

Greek PM tells Ukraine's Zelenskiy ready to provide help

Greece's Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis called Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Saturday, saying Greece had favoured the harshest European Union sanctions against Russia after its attack and stood ready to provide assistance.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
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dan_inbox said:
The thread about Ukrainian conflict being locked, I can't ask there. I hope asking this way is OK.

What are decently reliable sources of photos about the current military operations in the Ukraine?
I'm looking for just photos, not comments or analysis.
Reliable in the sense of not faked, not re-used from another situation, etc.

I am primarily looking for pictures of tanks, APCs, SPGs, etc. I don't care whether the site supports one side or the other, as long as the photos and captions are not fakes.

Any pointers?
Click to expand...

The Twitter account @RALee85 which has been referred to previously in this thread does a good job on that front, collecting and curating footage from other accounts that seems legit. There is comment and analysis, but it doesn't represent the bulk of the content (and, if you are interested after all, is very worthwhile in it own right, anyway!).
 
thehill.com

White House seeks $6.4B from Congress in Ukraine-related aid

The White House is asking Congress to approve $6.4 billion in additional funding to help respond to the ongoing Russian invasion in Ukraine, two sources confirmed to The Hill. &…
thehill.com thehill.com

thehill.com

Pentagon mulling ways to get more lethal aid to Ukraine

The U.S. military will provide additional lethal aid for Ukraine but is working through the logistics of delivery given the contested airspace over Ukraine, the Pentagon’s top spokesman said Friday…
thehill.com thehill.com
 
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Germany has dropped a block on lethal weapons connected to it being transferred, to allow 400 rocket-propelled grenade (RPG) launchers to be sent from the Netherlands to Ukraine.
www.theguardian.com

Liz Truss says ‘nowhere left to hide’ for Putin allies – as it happened

Pipeline in Kharkiv and oil terminal in Vasylkiv believed hit as US, UK and EU move to exclude ‘selected’ banks from global payments system
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
www.politico.eu

Germany to send Ukraine weapons in historic shift on military aid

Until Saturday, Germany had a longstanding practice of blocking lethal weapons from being sent to conflict zones.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
https://twitter.com/x/status/1497592156738965509
View: https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1497592156738965509
 
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Japanese cargo ship hit in Ukrainian port:

A missile hit a Japanese cargo ship called the Namura Queen late Friday as it was docked off the coast of Ukraine, injuring a crew member and damaging the vessel, the ship’s owner said. The shipping company, Nissen Kaiun, said the ship was docked in the port at Odessa to load grain when it was hit, but it is now headed to Turkey so that officials can check its condition.
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www.nytimes.com

What Happened on Day 3 of Russia’s Assault on Ukraine

Western intelligence reports indicated that the Russian advance had been slowed, if only for the moment. The Russian priority remained the capture of Kyiv.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

And two more vessels were reportedly hits (one probably sunk) :
www.pressherald.com

Ships shelled in Black Sea, sparking maritime chaos

The shipping news suggests insurers have reason to be careful, with at least two merchant vessels hit.
www.pressherald.com www.pressherald.com

On Thursday, a carrier chartered by Cargill was hit while sailing in Ukrainian waters in the Black Sea. The vessel was empty when the incident occurred and taken to safety, the company said. On Friday, a chemical tanker called Millennial Spirit, under the flag of Moldova was hit by a shell in the Black Sea, the country’s naval agency said in a statement on website.
[...]
Istanbul-based YA-SA Holding said earlier that Yasa Jupiter, a Marshall Island-flagged bulker it owns, was slightly damaged by a shell after unloading coal at the Ukrainian port of Odessa. It was unclear whether the ship was deliberately targeted or who fired the shell, and the vessel is heading under its own power to the closest port for a damage assessment, YA-SA said.

On the Millennial Spirit, a fire broke out, destroying equipment and lifeboats were destroyed, and forcing the cew to abandon ship only in their life jackets, the navel agency said.
Click to expand...
 
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jeffb said:
A lot of hyperventilating on twitter (naturally) but I'd be surprised if AFV drivers aren't taught to crush cars that try to drive up to them. You can pack a lot of explosives into a mid-sized car and many are detonated manually.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1497230849091117057
View: https://twitter.com/grantstern/status/1497230849091117057?s=20&t=VTTz1VIYOQ9kw9XE9CPrIA
Click to expand...

That's a Ukrainian Strela-10, not a Russian one. MT-LB just hates roads and hates turning smoothly because it drives like a T-34 (clutch braking). The driver probably panicked, thinking the car was going to hit him, or he was simply trying to follow the curve of the road, and he accidentally ran into the car. Simple as.

The result of a novice driver and pavement with MT-LB is a lot of stop-steer movement or skidding and jerky turning.
 
This made my day. "Rions un peu en attendant la mort" as said the much regretted Pierre Desproges ("let's laugh a little, waiting for death to come).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1497570787557097476
View: https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497570787557097476?s=20&t=zOlA6EbgCn4NYtzURTJlJw


I checked with google translator, and I swear (ha ha ha) it really means it.

"Direction Gofhukyarskeves" ROTFL

Desproges when he learned he had terminal cancer, went to his favorite fishmonger shop, bought a crab and cooked it (the word cancer is related to the word crab in old greek language).

And then Desproges said "Now: score of parity. Cancer 1, myself: 1".
 
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