UK-Japan-Italy Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP) News & Technical Analysis

Thanks WatcherZero, I did not know that Edgewing came from a nautical term I am actually starting to like the name now.
 
Pardon me, I had 4-5 pages to catch up on...

EmoBirb said:
They could team up with Sweden, or alternatively join FCAS. If FCAS doesn't fail due to France being France, of course.
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SCAF will happen for French national pride if nothing else, and is also more of a strike fighter than an air superiority fighter. SCAF = FAXX, GCAP = F-47

EmoBirb said:
But for now, it's all just rumors. I think to seriously consider it, the Americans would have to offer local manufacturing and tech transfer to Japan. Otherwise they're better off with their own program, even if it's more conservative/less capable. Just because they own all the intellectual property, all the tech and can modify the design in accordance to what the UK and Italy envision as well.
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Exactly. Japan got screwed out of F-22s, they're not going to risk that again.



takacosta said:
There is a strong possibility that Japan will purchase the F-47, but it is unlikely that they will withdraw from the GCAP. If Japan does decide to purchase it, it would be solely to fill the current gap in air power capabilities. The aircraft that will serve as Japan’s main combat force in the future will likely be the GCAP. If Japan were to withdraw from the GCAP, the reason would be due to delays in the program’s development. Japan is aiming for deployment by 2035 and cannot afford to wait until 2040.Additionally, before joining the GCAP project, Japan had plans to develop a fighter jet independently. Therefore, it is possible that Japan might leave GCAP and pursue the development of a sixth-generation fighter on its own, similar to how France developed the Rafale independently.
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Disagree that Japan would buy F-47s.


DWG said:
Exactly which components of a modern fighter does the UK not currently produce?
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Completed airframes as an entire system? On time and on or under budget?



takacosta said:
I think the F-35 is a better option for Japan than purchasing the F-47. It's not a good idea to increase the number of different aircraft types too much.
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No way, no how.

F-35 is a completely different mission than F-47.



Geo said:
It looks like this effort will end up the same as SCAF.

There will ve no GCAPs, no SCAFs, no "6th gen" Saabs.

There will be many and many F-35s for all. Even for France and Sweden will be enough.
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SCAF will happen as a matter of French national pride, if nothing else.



FighterJock said:
That all depends on how the US Military sees the F-47 in their long term strategy, I think that if they see it as being as important as the F-22 then I think that we may find ourselves in the similar situation where the F-47 is banned from export sales no matter what the US President says
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That wasn't US military, that was Congress blocking all F-22 sales.



ItalianAFDFail said:
likely the opportunities for later mergers between GCAP and FCAS would increase thanks to this, maybe the interoperability with FCAS supporting systems (not the planes necessarily) would be increased and would allow more companies to collaborate and the various members to work together
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Mission wise, there's little overlap between GCAP and SCAF.

At best, sharing some of the CCAs might work.



takacosta said:
Osaka University accelerates the development of heat-resistant material components for aircraft engines using a widely adopted manufacturing method.
Isn't it possible to produce single-crystal nickel with 3D printing as well, potentially reducing the number of processing steps?

https://resou.osaka-u.ac.jp/ja/research/2022/20220622_1
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No, you need to have a seed crystal and then carefully solidify the molten alloy around it. You can use 3d printing to change the molds, but the single-crystal process is not easy.
 
Hood said:
Well it's not even an aircraft name, it's the joint company name. SEPECAT, Panavia, Eurofighter - not entirely snappy names but they had a certain technocratic charm and Eurofighter was to the point.
Edgewing Tempest or Edgewing Shinden or Edgewing Falco doesn't really have the same ring to it.
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Boeing F-15 Eagle
Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon
Edgewing Fledgling?
 
It makes the website look like one of those paper aerospace startups with no cash and no viable product.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Which was delivered how far behind schedule?
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Currently less than any recent F-35!

Seriously, name any major defence project that came in on time and in budget? The delays on Typhoon were primarily political - deliberately slow funding post Peace Dividend/German Reunification. The one major exception was the delay between first flight and later flights, which was a reaction to the YF-22 and Gripen crashes, and everyone else was rechecking their flight control code for PIO possibilities at the same time.
 
DWG said:
Currently less than any recent F-35!

Seriously, name any major defence project that came in on time and in budget? The delays on Typhoon were primarily political - deliberately slow funding post Peace Dividend/German Reunification. The one major exception was the delay between first flight and later flights, which was a reaction to the YF-22 and Gripen crashes, and everyone else was rechecking their flight control code for PIO possibilities at the same time.
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I heard the B-21 programme is doing well from a budget and schedule perspective.
 
Scott Kenny said:
No, you need to have a seed crystal and then carefully solidify the molten alloy around it. You can use 3d printing to change the molds, but the single-crystal process is not easy.
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Are you talking about an actively-shaped mold? One that ‘moves’ in reaction to crystal growth?
 
starviking said:
Are you talking about an actively-shaped mold? One that ‘moves’ in reaction to crystal growth?
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No, I mean standard molds, just 3d printing new ones probably faster than the CNC process can.

Or, if it's faster to cut a new mold, you still use CNC.

I'm not exactly sure what kind of material is needed for those molds. Needs to be something very heat-resistant if it's containing molten titanium or nickel.
 
This thread seems to be drifting to unknown shores ... far, far away from the original topic.
Please, stay with GCAP, for the sake of keeping it somehow relevant.
Imagine how it would feel, if you'll read some of the last posts in , say, a year and not even know, what you were talking abaout ... ;)
 
Jemiba said:
This thread seems to be drifting to unknown shores ... far, far away from the original topic.
Please, stay with GCAP, for the sake of keeping it somehow relevant.
Imagine how it would feel, if you'll read some of the last posts in , say, a year and not even know, what you were talking abaout ... ;)
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Talking about the bits and pieces going into the engines.
 
Currently, various sixth-generation fighter jet development programs are underway around the world, but the GCAP seems to be progressing relatively smoothly. At the very least, we haven't seen the kind of disputes among partner nations that occurred during the Eurofighter program.
 
takacosta said:
Currently, various sixth-generation fighter jet development programs are underway around the world, but the GCAP seems to be progressing relatively smoothly. At the very least, we haven't seen the kind of disputes among partner nations that occurred during the Eurofighter program.
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Because there's nothing to have dispute about as of now. We'll see how things pan out once they need to choose who has the "best champion" solution for each systems.
 
Is there any chance they'll rename the consortium? or will that remain a part?
 
Don't know about that yet TylrrTylrr, the GCAP name has been around since the very beginning of the program.
 
TylrrTylrr said:
Is there any chance they'll rename the consortium? or will that remain a part?
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This "company" consortium was created for the sake of investors and taxation. So as long long as it deals with money or not breaks up it won't go away.
 
Seragina said:
This "company" consortium was created for the sake of investors and taxation. So as long long as it deals with money or not breaks up it won't go away.
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He's simply asking if there are any chance they'll change the name of the JV from Edgewing to something else since it sounds, well, 'edgy'.
 
Maro.Kyo said:
He's simply asking if there are any chance they'll change the name of the JV from Edgewing to something else since it sounds, well, 'edgy'.
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Same answer because as a "company" you have to go through the burocracy of aquiring business registries across countries and the registration codes etc. Normally, the tail naturally, involves fees, licences, inspections, cetificates. I suppose these are forgone here as it's not really a company but an entity for administration purposes.
 
In comparison to the NGAD/F-47 where we (the US) ran a rapid, classified demonstration effort in which we usually do related to critical need and cutting edge tech, the GCAP team should have been doing the same thing. But I still think there are too many players on this program. Now the UK had built and flight tested (at Woomera) previously three (one of them was Taranis) different unmanned platforms with apparent LO capability but they did this by themselves and seemed to have developed these quickly. To bad none of the three evolved into any in-service capability. In regards to the F-47, I am hoping we keep this program on-track. Too many players can create also too many problems, I hope GCAP goes well, time will tell.
 
Hydroman said:
In comparison to the NGAD/F-47 where we (the US) ran a rapid, classified demonstration effort in which we usually do related to critical need and cutting edge tech, the GCAP team should have been doing the same thing. But I still think there are too many players on this program. Now the UK had built and flight tested (at Woomera) previously three (one of them was Taranis) different unmanned platforms with apparent LO capability but they did this by themselves and seemed to have developed these quickly. To bad none of the three evolved into any in-service capability. In regards to the F-47, I am hoping we keep this program on-track. Too many players can create also too many problems, I hope GCAP goes well, time will tell.
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The US way is not always the best. There will be plenty of time to crow if and when F-47 is proven to be a successful project.
 
Seragina said:
This "company" consortium was created for the sake of investors and taxation. So as long long as it deals with money or not breaks up it won't go away.
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I fear you misunderstand the purpose and significance of Edgewing.
 

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