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Turkish TFX National Combat Aircraft

Maro.Kyo

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I would not be so confident to believe if anyone claims that Turkey has an engine with TIT of over 1,400 ºc and that figure already is very generous.
And then there's F135 burning the first turbine blade at 2000°C.
Yes that surely is something, although there are some opinions that say it should actually be 3,200°F not 3,600°F, doubting the figures from Langston's article. Very interesting subject to discuss about but its unfortunately OT.
 

totoro

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Okay, so bottom line conclusion is that Turkey has had more tech transfer on engines than Sweden?

So it'd take them less to develop a home grown iteration of F110 than it did the Chinese for F101/CFM56?

They'd still likely want a smaller, less powerful but more modern tech to power their jet though. Sizing up the TFX to a F15 weight class design is likely not what they ideally had in mind.
 

Maro.Kyo

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Okay, so bottom line conclusion is that Turkey has had more tech transfer on engines than Sweden?

So it'd take them less to develop a home grown iteration of F110 than it did the Chinese for F101/CFM56?

They'd still likely want a smaller, less powerful but more modern tech to power their jet though. Sizing up the TFX to a F15 weight class design is likely not what they ideally had in mind.
I don't think that it was necessarily only the transfer of technologies that brought Turkey to this point. Surely, cooperation with GE would've helped a lot but they did indeed invest into it.

Even so, like I've said they still do lack experience developing a turbofan engine which has some critical differences to the turboshaft they are most experienced in. On the other hand the Chinese were developing turbojet and turbofan engines since a very long time, although hindered by incidents like Cultural Revolution and Tiananmen Square Massacre in between. With all that experience, they still were faced with some major problems developing WS-10 from the knowledge they've gained via reverse engineering the CFM56 and AL-31.

All in all, I don't think it's going to be any easier for the Turks compare to what the Chinese have gone through, unless they, for example, reverse engineer the F110 and make a copy of it.
 

totoro

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All in all, I don't think it's going to be any easier for the Turks compare to what the Chinese have gone through, unless they, for example, reverse engineer the F110 and make a copy of it.

But isn't that the very first, to be expected step for Turkey to take? Reverse engineering an engine would be the most efficient thing to do. That way they'd get a "domestic" engine as soon as possible. And as they're doing that, they have a parallel program to introduce various improvements and changes, for some future variants of the engine. If they DON'T reverse engineer it but strive for something better, they risk of getting stuck in development hell for possibly well over a decade, which by all accounts is NOT what TFX program is willing to wait for.
 

Maro.Kyo

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All in all, I don't think it's going to be any easier for the Turks compare to what the Chinese have gone through, unless they, for example, reverse engineer the F110 and make a copy of it.

But isn't that the very first, to be expected step for Turkey to take? Reverse engineering an engine would be the most efficient thing to do. That way they'd get a "domestic" engine as soon as possible. And as they're doing that, they have a parallel program to introduce various improvements and changes, for some future variants of the engine. If they DON'T reverse engineer it but strive for something better, they risk of getting stuck in development hell for possibly well over a decade, which by all accounts is NOT what TFX program is willing to wait for.
The question is if the US would allow such complete copy of their design to be produced without their authorization. Only a handful of critical components are manufactured directly at TEI which should mean that the rest of the engine are what they would not have been granted the transfer of design. More than 40% of the the TEI is owned by GE so I would suggest that the control over the American designs are still there. The US probably would have access to the logs on which engine went where. I'm not really convinced if under such environment Turkey could somehow send one of their F110 to TR Motor so that it could be disassembled. Especially under current situations.

Also, even though reverse engineering could provide some fast-track methods in engineering a product, it is also the case that one would always find a design or a component which they could not determine the function or meaning thereof, because reverse engineering is still essentially a guess work. What I meant with my comparison with the Chinese was that, the Turks at least were granted the license and design of the components of the engine and have manufactured and assembled the F110 for quite a long time. That would make the whole process of reverse engineering a lot easier compared to the case of China.
 
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Deino

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Deino

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Combat-Master

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looks like the chinese jl-10 trainer. are they receiving help from xi's China ?
Negative. Most of the engineers working on Hurjet were previously working on SNC for the U.S. Air Force’s (USAF) T-X lead-in fighter-trainer


Hurjet is not based on any other aircraft.
 

Maro.Kyo

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Key takeaways and my thoughts :

No delays until now, and no signs of future delays as of yet.
- (they've claimed they are actually ahead of schedule a few months ago)

Started some of the wind tunnel testing already.
- (Considering that wind tunnel testing obviously should have been conducted since years ago, maybe he means conducting it in the ones in Turkey?)

BAE assistance going smooth it seems.

Hiring more engineers and training them to participate in the project.
- (From what I know, this "training" must be very marginal and those engineers must be already very experienced in their fields, just not in designing a fighter jet. I've forgot the source but I remember reading a French aviation engineer describing the life of an engineer as consisted of first 10 years of learning in the field, the next 15~20 years of actually working in some project, and the last 10 years of training the next generation. From such perspective, an aviation engineer is not what you could just "train" for some months and bring to work on an actual project.)

Have started preparing for the production of the first prototype, namely the metal cutting.
- (Wouldn't put too much emphasis on simply cutting a metal)

"Initial development" of the Turkish engine started.

Selected 1 or 2 readily available engines as an interim solution.
- (Considering the fact that this time he doesn't go on to mention the F110 but "1 or perhaps 2 engines", maybe Turkey is planning to try getting the approval from the US for the use of their license produced F110 for the TF-X? Also perhaps, to be prepared in case that doesn't work out, negotiating with another party for the supplying of the engine in the meantime. There are only two countries who have F110 equivalent engines ready apart from the US, and I think Russia would be the most likely candidate considering their recent statements about the possible sales of Sukhois to Turkey.)
- (Though I am guessing that they are currently designing TF-X with F110 in mind, as that is the only solution that has been mentioned numerous times by Turkish engineers and officials, if Turkey cannot get the approval of the use of F110 for TF-X, that should either mean scraping the detailed design that went through CDR and get to work on a new detailed design with the alternative engine in mind, or delay detailed design phase and CDR all together until the approval is given/denied for the F110. Maybe working parallel on 2 detailed designs, each with F110 and AL-31F in the same time?)

Turkish engine to be ready after 2026 or 2027.
- (Those 2026~2027 figure probably comes from the current schedule of maiden flight of the prototype in between Q4 of 2026 and Q1 of 2027.)
- (As I have also posted on this thread based on the infos from Turkish officials, their plan was - and probably still is - to get the engine to run hot for the first time in 2026 and fly it for the first time around 2028~2029. As I've noted a few times, this timeline is already ambitious enough so I don't expect such development schedule to have changed, hence him saying "after" 2026~2027, which the 2028~2029 technically fits into.)

The used render of the TF-X is still the same or at least almost the same from last year.
- (probably down to the fact that this aircraft hasn't even passed PDR yet.)
- (I expect changes of the design during the rest of the preliminary design and detailed design which is soon to follow. I'm curious about what they're gonna do with the IRST in front of the cockpit, considering they already have a EOTS like stuff below the nose as well.)
 
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UpForce

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... BAE assistance going smooth it seems ... There are only two countries who have F110 equivalent engines ready apart from the US, and I think Russia would be the most likely candidate considering their recent statements about the possible sales of Sukhois to Turkey.

I find it hard to believe that BAE would provide any assistance whatsoever if there were realistic possibilities of Russian companies being involved. Then again, even against the backdrop of Turkey's ongoing S-400 project I find BAE's involvement at least somewhat ill considered; such decisions are never purely business based so I guess the larger NATO/EU context has, for the moment, found a way to provide incentives for re-establishing more meaningful ties via this project. There must be points along the way where risk/reward considerations will be re-examined, as the state dynamics of both the UK and Turkey have their obvious idiosyncractic precarities. While the Middle East is somewhat a reduced priority for the US going forward in the medium term, Russia's current leadership isn't going to be in the position of enjoying geopolitical or strategic freebies in that area any more (or anywhere). Still, mischief on Putin's part is guaranteed so some of the responsibility in providing clarity rests squarely on Turkey, or rather Erdoğan's administration. We'll see if they're up to providing it and how it will reflect on projects like the TFX.
 

Deino

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Thanks for posting

Key takeaways and my thoughts :

No delays until now, and no signs of future delays as of yet.
- (they've claimed they are actually ahead of schedule a few months ago)

Started some of the wind tunnel testing already.
- (Considering that wind tunnel testing obviously should have been conducted since years ago, maybe he means conducting it in the ones in Turkey?)

BAE assistance going smooth it seems.

Hiring more engineers and training them to participate in the project.
- (From what I know, this "training" must be very marginal and those engineers must be already very experienced in their fields, just not in designing a fighter jet. I've forgot the source but I remember reading a French aviation engineer describing the life of an engineer as consisted of first 10 years of learning in the field, the next 15~20 years of actually working in some project, and the last 10 years of training the next generation. From such perspective, an aviation engineer is not what you could just "train" for some months and bring to work on an actual project.)

Have started preparing for the production of the first prototype, namely the metal cutting.
- (Wouldn't put too much emphasis on simply cutting a metal)

"Initial development" of the Turkish engine started.

Selected 1 or 2 readily available engines as an interim solution.
- (Considering the fact that this time he doesn't go on to mention the F110 but "1 or perhaps 2 engines", maybe Turkey is planning to try getting the approval from the US for the use of their license produced F110 for the TF-X? Also perhaps, to be prepared in case that doesn't work out, negotiating with another party for the supplying of the engine in the meantime. There are only two countries who have F110 equivalent engines ready apart from the US, and I think Russia would be the most likely candidate considering their recent statements about the possible sales of Sukhois to Turkey.)
- (Though I am guessing that they are currently designing TF-X with F110 in mind, as that is the only solution that has been mentioned numerous times by Turkish engineers and officials, if Turkey cannot get the approval of the use of F110 for TF-X, that should either mean scraping the detailed design that went through CDR and get to work on a new detailed design with the alternative engine in mind, or delay detailed design phase and CDR all together until the approval is given/denied for the F110. Maybe working parallel on 2 detailed designs, each with F110 and AL-31F in the same time?)

Turkish engine to be ready after 2026 or 2027.
- (Those 2026~2027 figure probably comes from the current schedule of maiden flight of the prototype in between Q4 of 2026 and Q1 of 2027.)
- (As I have also posted on this thread based on the infos from Turkish officials, their plan was - and probably still is - to get the engine to run hot for the first time in 2026 and fly it for the first time around 2028~2029. As I've noted a few times, this timeline is already ambitious enough so I don't expect such development schedule to have changed, hence him saying "after" 2026~2027, which the 2028~2029 technically fits into.)

The used render of the TF-X is still the same or at least almost the same from last year.
- (probably down to the fact that this aircraft hasn't even passed PDR yet.)
- (I expect changes of the design during the rest of the preliminary design and detailed design which is soon to follow. I'm curious about what they're gonna do with the IRST in front of the cockpit, considering they already have a EOTS like stuff below the nose as well.)

Thanks a lot for your effort to provide a translated summary, and so it is getting more and more interesting.
However the mentioned and previously discussed questions are all still open, however again no answers were given.

@Combat-Master ??? Still no replies?
 

stealthflanker

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Well, how far is it US Sanction toward Turkey ? Other than sacking from JSF and some political sabre rattlings + some Turkish officials cannot go abroad nor doing business with US firms... i dont see anything severe. the CAATSA seems to target only the individuals involved with the S-400 deals.

Other than that :


It's business usual.

I guess US will also cut some slack in use of the F-100/F-110 engine for Turkish TFX's. I would also assume the indigenous engine would be of the similar stats as F-110.

This could allow some estimates. e.g Take off weight of at least 26000 Kg for T/W=1.
 

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Thanks for posting

Key takeaways and my thoughts :

No delays until now, and no signs of future delays as of yet.
- (they've claimed they are actually ahead of schedule a few months ago)

Started some of the wind tunnel testing already.
- (Considering that wind tunnel testing obviously should have been conducted since years ago, maybe he means conducting it in the ones in Turkey?)

BAE assistance going smooth it seems.

Hiring more engineers and training them to participate in the project.
- (From what I know, this "training" must be very marginal and those engineers must be already very experienced in their fields, just not in designing a fighter jet. I've forgot the source but I remember reading a French aviation engineer describing the life of an engineer as consisted of first 10 years of learning in the field, the next 15~20 years of actually working in some project, and the last 10 years of training the next generation. From such perspective, an aviation engineer is not what you could just "train" for some months and bring to work on an actual project.)

Have started preparing for the production of the first prototype, namely the metal cutting.
- (Wouldn't put too much emphasis on simply cutting a metal)

"Initial development" of the Turkish engine started.

Selected 1 or 2 readily available engines as an interim solution.
- (Considering the fact that this time he doesn't go on to mention the F110 but "1 or perhaps 2 engines", maybe Turkey is planning to try getting the approval from the US for the use of their license produced F110 for the TF-X? Also perhaps, to be prepared in case that doesn't work out, negotiating with another party for the supplying of the engine in the meantime. There are only two countries who have F110 equivalent engines ready apart from the US, and I think Russia would be the most likely candidate considering their recent statements about the possible sales of Sukhois to Turkey.)
- (Though I am guessing that they are currently designing TF-X with F110 in mind, as that is the only solution that has been mentioned numerous times by Turkish engineers and officials, if Turkey cannot get the approval of the use of F110 for TF-X, that should either mean scraping the detailed design that went through CDR and get to work on a new detailed design with the alternative engine in mind, or delay detailed design phase and CDR all together until the approval is given/denied for the F110. Maybe working parallel on 2 detailed designs, each with F110 and AL-31F in the same time?)

Turkish engine to be ready after 2026 or 2027.
- (Those 2026~2027 figure probably comes from the current schedule of maiden flight of the prototype in between Q4 of 2026 and Q1 of 2027.)
- (As I have also posted on this thread based on the infos from Turkish officials, their plan was - and probably still is - to get the engine to run hot for the first time in 2026 and fly it for the first time around 2028~2029. As I've noted a few times, this timeline is already ambitious enough so I don't expect such development schedule to have changed, hence him saying "after" 2026~2027, which the 2028~2029 technically fits into.)

The used render of the TF-X is still the same or at least almost the same from last year.
- (probably down to the fact that this aircraft hasn't even passed PDR yet.)
- (I expect changes of the design during the rest of the preliminary design and detailed design which is soon to follow. I'm curious about what they're gonna do with the IRST in front of the cockpit, considering they already have a EOTS like stuff below the nose as well.)

Thanks a lot for your effort to provide a translated summary, and so it is getting more and more interesting.
However the mentioned and previously discussed questions are all still open, however again no answers were given.

@Combat-Master ??? Still no replies?
The video is in English
 

Deino

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But you are probably the best one to answer the still open questions?
 

Combat-Master

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But you are probably the best one to answer the still open questions?

I post information that is open source, TAI are tight lipped about TFX and Hurjet. TAI cannot not release any information unless it is approved by the Turkish MOD, every image, pdf and press releases goes through Turkish MOD before it goes public. This is also the case with foreign partners doing business with Turkey, except Ukrainian defence industry has fudged up a few times and disclosed information on Turkey's procurement of engines for LACM missiles...
 

Deino

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But you are probably the best one to answer the still open questions?

I post information that is open source, TAI are tight lipped about TFX and Hurjet. TAI cannot not release any information unless it is approved by the Turkish MOD, every image, pdf and press releases goes through Turkish MOD before it goes public. This is also the case with foreign partners doing business with Turkey, except Ukrainian defence industry has fudged up a few times and disclosed information on Turkey's procurement of engines for LACM missiles...


Agreed, but again, based on their own schedule, time is running fast and I'm not the only one who sees no answers or options on how they will reach their goal ... but let's wait.
 

Deino

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Combat-Master

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Again not meant as an offence but only as an argument, why so many are sceptical towards any Turkish claims for their own Hürjet and even more the MMU/TFX: This is how a prototype of an advanced fighter aircraft should look like at the moment when you want to aim for a maiden flight in early 2022.

View: https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1366282075440111617

The skepticism is completely understandable, especially the way TAI are very tight lipped; for instance the recent reveal of an unmanned 6 ton attack helicopter - nothing was previously mentioned about it, no one was aware TAI were working on an hybrid propulsion system either. We'll be drip fed information or they'll just show it off for maximum political gain.

Anyway, Hurjet is said to be revealed this year. 9 months left for them to keep to their word an another 21 months for a flight test.. not long to go..
 

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helmutkohl

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^ I know Deino is a bit of a skeptical scottie in regards to Turkish aviation
and I think that the Hurjet is very likely soon. But I share the same skepticism with Deino over the TFX.

I still feel Turkey should have stayed with Korea and indonesia in working on the KFX.
the three have a long history of working together and it could have been the first true "Asiafighter"!
 

Combat-Master

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^ I know Deino is a bit of a skeptical scottie in regards to Turkish aviation
and I think that the Hurjet is very likely soon. But I share the same skepticism with Deino over the TFX.

I still feel Turkey should have stayed with Korea and indonesia in working on the KFX.
the three have a long history of working together and it could have been the first true "Asiafighter"!

I don't feel the same, I believe Turkey did good in staying out of the KFX. KFX would have definitely been the least riskiest option, but it does not benefit Turkey towards the ambitions the current government has for Turkey. This is why Turkey and US have a falling out, Turkey is not going with the script (CENTCOM) US has of the region (Syria,Iraq) and US script doesn't work without Turkey.

It's going to be tough but I don't doubt my countrymen's capability, only time will tell though..
 

kaiserd

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^ I know Deino is a bit of a skeptical scottie in regards to Turkish aviation
and I think that the Hurjet is very likely soon. But I share the same skepticism with Deino over the TFX.

I still feel Turkey should have stayed with Korea and indonesia in working on the KFX.
the three have a long history of working together and it could have been the first true "Asiafighter"!

I don't feel the same, I believe Turkey did good in staying out of the KFX. KFX would have definitely been the least riskiest option, but it does not benefit Turkey towards the ambitions the current government has for Turkey. This is why Turkey and US have a falling out, Turkey is not going with the script (CENTCOM) US has of the region (Syria,Iraq) and US script doesn't work without Turkey.

It's going to be tough but I don't doubt my countrymen's capability, only time will tell though..
South Korea must be so happy they don’t have to deal with the multiple issues that joint development with Turkey would have inevitably led to; they very much dodged a bullet in that regard.
 

tequilashooter

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What is causing me to scratch my head is not just the past Trump administration but even Biden administration still having high hopes that Turkey will ditch the S-400 for F-35s, while Turkey has high hopes that exceptions will be made to keep the S-400 and get F-35s always makes me chuckle. But it already looks like Turkey wont be the 1st to budge(based on aircraft and drone developments) and I do not know how desperate the U.S. is to get a profit for 100 F-35s. Its already made clear by how lively this thread is on the TAI-TFX and Hurjet projects and we simply cannot forget all their chest thumping on their drone projects.

But they really are hoping it will go their way considering a 2nd S-400 batch.
 
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UpForce

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I don't feel the same, I believe Turkey did good in staying out of the KFX. KFX would have definitely been the least riskiest option, but it does not benefit Turkey towards the ambitions the current government has for Turkey. This is why Turkey and US have a falling out, Turkey is not going with the script (CENTCOM) US has of the region (Syria,Iraq) and US script doesn't work without Turkey.

It's going to be tough but I don't doubt my countrymen's capability, only time will tell though..
You're fairly cryptic about these "ambitions". In terms of capability KFX can't be far from whatever TFX could be in such a constricted time frame and makes one wonder what on earth made Turkish decision makers forsake F-35 for some rather dubious AA missiles then? Additionally, any move that could exclude Turkey from NATO will also hamper co-operation with BAE.

Insofar there's a US "script" in the area (and what role Turkey might play in it) the last four years it has been incoherent, save for the US basically giving Putin one gift after another. This will of course change now. Erdoğan's personal approach (wherein it might not align perfectly with the official above the board foreign policy) has been even more complicated, what with former Gen. Flynn's "consulting" work in trying to basically arrange the abduction of Gülen from the US into Turkey and some dubious bankers being let off by Barr's justice department "just because" (and I'm sure I'm forgetting some stuff). There's just not that much to "fall out" from, so I'm surprised by the dramatic imagery. Mutual opportunities abound.

So where's the strategic interest? Going towards Greece would be an absolute s**tshow and a joyful occasion for basically all of Turkey's less than democratic and opportunistic neighbors. Seriously, the potential Med oil fields cannot be worth that, in this day and age. Russian and Turkish proxy interests basically keep tripping over each other all over the place, so trying to establish a more strategically coherent area of Turcik peoples will certainly run into that. Black sea endeavors with Ukraine without NATO would be foolhardy. Besides, why even dabble with S-400s then? Historically, Turkish attitude towards Kurds and Armenians has been abysmal but even in worst case scenarios TFX isn't really an applicable capability there. Besides, Kurds will not be thrown under the bus while Biden is president and likely not even after that. What would the rationale in going into Iraq even be? Infuriating all of the the Arab world? Iran, on its part, will continue to have greater problems than Turkey for the foreseeable future. Little to be gained in Syria, except empty chauvinistic boasting. To be clear, these are all pretty much quagmires, morally reprehensible scenarios and hopefully very, very unlikely for the human cost alone.

Still, I can understand TFX for the strategic leverage alone, it keeps options open and perhaps helps other industries. For a while, new design and production methodologies seem to enable almost purely national fighter efforts again, if there's a will to do it. It will be interesting to see. And it's always good to keep up with the Joneses.
 

Combat-Master

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^ I know Deino is a bit of a skeptical scottie in regards to Turkish aviation
and I think that the Hurjet is very likely soon. But I share the same skepticism with Deino over the TFX.

I still feel Turkey should have stayed with Korea and indonesia in working on the KFX.
the three have a long history of working together and it could have been the first true "Asiafighter"!

I don't feel the same, I believe Turkey did good in staying out of the KFX. KFX would have definitely been the least riskiest option, but it does not benefit Turkey towards the ambitions the current government has for Turkey. This is why Turkey and US have a falling out, Turkey is not going with the script (CENTCOM) US has of the region (Syria,Iraq) and US script doesn't work without Turkey.

It's going to be tough but I don't doubt my countrymen's capability, only time will tell though..
South Korea must be so happy they don’t have to deal with the multiple issues that joint development with Turkey would have inevitably led to; they very much dodged a bullet in that regard.

lol okay! It just goes to show you how dependent the S.Korean aviation is on another country.
 
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kaiserd

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^ I know Deino is a bit of a skeptical scottie in regards to Turkish aviation
and I think that the Hurjet is very likely soon. But I share the same skepticism with Deino over the TFX.

I still feel Turkey should have stayed with Korea and indonesia in working on the KFX.
the three have a long history of working together and it could have been the first true "Asiafighter"!

I don't feel the same, I believe Turkey did good in staying out of the KFX. KFX would have definitely been the least riskiest option, but it does not benefit Turkey towards the ambitions the current government has for Turkey. This is why Turkey and US have a falling out, Turkey is not going with the script (CENTCOM) US has of the region (Syria,Iraq) and US script doesn't work without Turkey.

It's going to be tough but I don't doubt my countrymen's capability, only time will tell though..
South Korea must be so happy they don’t have to deal with the multiple issues that joint development with Turkey would have inevitably led to; they very much dodged a bullet in that regard.

lol okay! It just goes to show you how dependent the S.Korean aviation is on another country.
As is Turkey to exactly the same (or greater) extent, empty ultra-nationalist rhetoric aside.
South Korea actually has more experience and credibility in this regard, with a greater number of technically successful domestic and/ or joint programs already to their credit.
And to be clear I have no skin in this game.
 

tequilashooter

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Good news for Russia is whatever jackass expeditions they pull in the middle east, NATO would not feel that obligated to assist them. I get tired of the F-35 this, su-57 that on every forum. I feel like a excited school boy going out on a date with his crush with their new drones and aviation projects because I know that military wise they are active and I would love to see much of their equipment get tested against air defenses and possibly new air defenses as well, or hell even a possible conventional drone on drone conflict also involving EW systems with Russia, etc.
 

Deino

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^ I know Deino is a bit of a skeptical scottie in regards to Turkish aviation
and I think that the Hurjet is very likely soon. But I share the same skepticism with Deino over the TFX.

I still feel Turkey should have stayed with Korea and indonesia in working on the KFX.
the three have a long history of working together and it could have been the first true "Asiafighter"!

I don't feel the same, I believe Turkey did good in staying out of the KFX. KFX would have definitely been the least riskiest option, but it does not benefit Turkey towards the ambitions the current government has for Turkey. This is why Turkey and US have a falling out, Turkey is not going with the script (CENTCOM) US has of the region (Syria,Iraq) and US script doesn't work without Turkey.

It's going to be tough but I don't doubt my countrymen's capability, only time will tell though..
South Korea must be so happy they don’t have to deal with the multiple issues that joint development with Turkey would have inevitably led to; they very much dodged a bullet in that regard.

lol okay! It just goes to show you how dependent the S.Korean aviation is on another country.


That's exactly that attitude that annoys so many: South Korea indeed is fully dependent on US systems like engines (not unlike Turkey) but they admit it, they make the best out of their situation with a NOT less ambitious and sure more realistic concept. They have built a vast experience over the year with licence manufacturing, cooperation and in recent years even indigenous designs ... in contrast to Turkey they have at least successfully completed development of several projects, whereas Turkey has what archived so far?

Like @kaiserd just noted and I would even extend it to nothing but "ultra-nationalist rhetoric"!

But again, let's wait and see but don't be upset when the whole world of aviation enthusiasts will make a lot of fun if nothing happens.
 

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