Tupolev 1922-1945 projects

[Arjen]

The 103U was created at the literal demand of the NIIVVS to build an aircraft just like the Ju-88.

I have read about that in Tupolev Aircraft since 1922 by Bill Gunston, Putnam 1995. 'Build a better dive bomber than the Ju 88'. He notes it is not substantiated by any proof.
<edit> Something similar referred to in OKB Tupolev by Yefim Gordon and Vladimir Rigmant, Midland 2005 </edit>
The Pe-2 had similar dive brakes to the Ju 88 dive brakes, the 103 prototype did too, the production Tu-2 did not. Pe-2 also derived from Ju 88?
The Focke-Wulf Ta 154 was supposed to be the German equivalent of the DH Mosquito - fast, wooden construction, twin engine - yet nobody ever claimed the Ta 154 was derived from the Mosquito.
- Pe-2 a twin engine, all metal bomber
- Tu-2 a twin engine, all metal bomber
- Ju 88 a twin engine, all metal bomber
Not enough to conclude one, maybe two, derived from the third.
Which equipment was carried over from Ju 88 to Tu-2?
Which structural design features?

 

[Arjen]

So what are the Ju 88 features in the Tu-2?

 

[Ahriman]

Tupolev Design Bureau employees themselves admitted that the Tu-2 was based on the Junkers, and this is clearly stated in the documents. This doesn't need to be proven, it's simply a fact that has long been ignored.

As a concept, certanly. 103U, 103V in particular had cockpit rearrangements to broadly reflect Ju-88 layout. However, how you have managed to measure influence on the design in percentages remains a mystery. And so does the value of these percentages, since the rest of the aircraft remained essentially the same relative to 103.

 

[Arjen]

This doesn't need to be proven

Righto.

 

[igor-mich]

And what is the question. To prove that it looks like a Ju-88. So you can say about the Ju-88 that it is also not the original, but looks like the rest of the aircraft from 1935-1939.

 

[Ahriman]

Because that's what the say OKB members and docunents.

Would love to actually see those.

The 103 was created in a completely different idea, a development of Tupolev's obsession with building a cruiser.

And this is supported by?

For example, this is Tupolev's pitch of "103" project to VVS higherups:

The FB is a high-speed, twin-engine dive bomber designed to attack targets located in the enemy's front line and near rear areas. "FB" allows bombing from a long deep dive at the most advantageous angles (55-75") at speeds reaching 900 km / h. The design, visibility, armament and equipment of the aircraft were developed taking into account the specific conditions of a deep dive and high speeds. "FB" carries a maximum bomb load of up to 2000 kg at a range of 1000 km and a bomb load of 1000 kg at a maximum range of 2000-2500 km. "FB" allows the placement of various types and calibers of bombs, from armor-piercing weighing 1500 kg, designed to sink modern battleships, covered with powerful armor, to small fragmentation weighing 0.7 kg (in the amount of up to 2259 pieces) to destroy manpower in places of their accumulation. "FB" has a horizontal speed of 700-740 km / h, a ceiling of 13,000-14,000 m and a high It is maneuverable, armed with six rapid-fire machine guns with a 6,000-round ammunition capacity, and its entire crew is protected by armor—all of which allows it to successfully overcome the resistance of the best modern fighters. The FB can, if necessary, conduct small arms attacks on ground targets, as its four forward rapid-fire machine guns can be angled to the required angle. The FB's design allows for mass mechanized production.

Dated February 1st 1940. It was pitched and developed to play the exact same role as Ju-88, before NII VVS got its hands on actual Ju-88 in May 1940 and requested rearrangement of crew layout in the very same May 1940, which led to "103U".