The German Wiesel AWC replacement project, the airborne weapon carrier (GSD LuWa)

[muttbutt]

Translated form German.

On June 22nd, IABG, commissioned by the BAAINBw as general contractor, presented the complete system demonstrator for an airborne weapon carrier (GSD LuWa) after a project duration of 14 months.

Together with the project partners ACS, FFG and Valhalla Turrets, the vehicle, weapon system and interior were presented to a ministerial and official specialist audience at ACS in Derching near Augsburg.
With the GSD LuWa, the subsystems that are considered to be particularly risky are to be examined and evaluated by mid-2022.

A digital twin of the GSD LuWa accompanies the investigation and can be used for the further development process. For the possible successor to the Wiesel 1 MK, technical specifications are being developed that could be incorporated into the performance description for future development.

Luftbeweglicher Waffenträger – LuWa Gesamtsystemdemonstrator vorgestellt

Am 22. Juni stellte die vom BAAINBw als Generalunternehmer beauftragte IABG den Gesamtsystemdemonstrator für einen Luftbeweglichen Waffenträger (GSD LuWa) nach 14 Monaten Projektlaufzeit vor.

soldat-und-technik.de

CGI of the demonstrator.

 

[Pioneer]

Wow, that's different!!

Regards
Pioneer

 

[stealthflanker]

Looks very futuristic.

 

[DWG]

Interesting! The twin-tracks are different. I do wonder about the strips at the side - the two under that small side viewport are clearly tapped to receive something, but the positioning is odd - too central for add-on armour and anything bulky will cut down the field of view from the port. The bigger group of strips to the rear are so flat to the surface they almost look velcro-like.

There's a couple of interesting articles linked off the one in the OP, one about the Jaegers (German light infantry units), plus one gebirgsjaeger battalion, adopting the Boxer in IFV configuration as a Wiesel replacement in their heavy companies (which makes sense given they've lost their airmobile role), and the other about a Chinese Wiesel look-alike.

Division 2027 – Schwere Waffenträger ersetzen die Wiesel

Organisatorisch sind die schweren Waffenträger für alle Jägerverbände und das mit Boxern ausgestattete Gebirgsjägebataillon 231 (Bad Reichenhall) vorgesehen, die restlichen Infanterieverbände erhalten den Planungen nach den LuWa (luftbeweglicher Waffenträger).

soldat-und-technik.de

Chinesischer Anbieter zeigt neues gepanzertes Kettenfahrzeug

Der chinesische Hersteller Beijing North Vehicle Group Corporation hat am 1. Oktober ein Werbevideo veröffentlicht, das ein neues gepanzertes Kettenfahrzeug zeigt, welches große Ähnlichkeiten mit dem deutschen Waffenträger Wiesel 2 von Rheinmetall aufweist.

soldat-und-technik.de

 

[muttbutt]

Pic of the real steel prototype.

 

[Grey Havoc]

The tracks seem rather narrow, or am I imagining things?

 

[Uberseehandel]

The tracks seem rather narrow, or am I imagining things?

The tracks ARE narrow, to me the project looks Fragile

 

[yasotay]

If it has the same dimensions as the Wiesel, it will fit inside a CH-47. Beats a squad automatic MG bolted on a glorified dune buggy.

 

[DWG]

The pic makes it clear the "strips" at the side I was puzzled by are actually cooling louvres.

 

[DWG]

The tracks seem rather narrow, or am I imagining things?

The whole thing is going to be lightweight, so they probably don't need wide tracks to give low ground-pressure, and the wider the tracks the narrower the hull has to be to fit CH-47 or CH-53

 

[Ainen]

Other than tracks, the general outline looks a bit like late-war Japanese light tanks.
Natural form for a very light tank, I guess?

 

[Fluff]

Other than tracks, the general outline looks a bit like late-war Japanese light tanks.
Natural form for a very light tank, I guess?

Just a coincidence I would think, the size is dictated by CH53. Armour is very light on this, hence the use of glass, as vision is more useful, and the glass presumably matches the thin armour in terms of performance.

It is a weapons carrier, not a tank after all.

 

[TomS]

The tracks seem rather narrow, or am I imagining things?

The whole thing is going to be lightweight, so they probably don't need wide tracks to give low ground-pressure, and the wider the tracks the narrower the hull has to be to fit CH-47 or CH-53

Wiesel has really skinny tracks as well.

 

[muttbutt]

To answer some of the questions, the 4 track layout is to improve survivability against mine strikes etc, lose a track and can keep going, each track is individually powered by an electic motor.

 

[pedrospe]

To answer some of the questions, the 4 track layout is to improve survivability against mine strikes etc, lose a track and can keep going, each track is individually powered by an electic motor.

Pretty cool, small but deadly

 

[Fluff]

To answer some of the questions, the 4 track layout is to improve survivability against mine strikes etc, lose a track and can keep going, each track is individually powered by an electic motor.

Pretty cool, small but deadly

Do you think they would do a civilian version...? Look cool on the M25, no one would cut you up..

 

[GTX]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550735150308368385

View: https://twitter.com/JonHawkes275/status/1550735150308368385

 

[yasotay]

Impressive! Does it fit in a CH-47?

 

[riggerrob]

Impressive! Does it fit in a CH-47?

The German Army flies Sikorsky CH-53 heavy-lift helicopters derived from US Marine Corps variants. Sikorsky has partnered with Rheinmetal to bid on the Bundeswehr's competition that may lead to further CH-53K Stallion sales to Germany.
Israel has already signed contracts to replace their older CH-53 with CH-53K King Stallions.

 

[TomS]

Impressive! Does it fit in a CH-47?

The German Army flies Sikorsky CH-53 heavy-lift helicopters derived from US Marine Corps variants. Sikorsky has partnered with Rheinmetal to bid on the Bundeswehr's competition that may lead to further CH-53K Stallion sales to Germany.
Israel has already signed contracts to replace their older CH-53 with CH-53K King Stallions.

Germany just ordered CH-47Fs to replace the CH-53Ds.

 

[BB1984]

Impressive! Does it fit in a CH-47?

Yes but . . .

CH-47 cargo area is 2.29m wide and the Luftbeweglichen Waffenträger (LuWa) is about 2m wide . . . so it fits but only with about .15m (< 6 inches) on either side, so:

1. Loading it would be painstaking because not only is there very limited clearance on the sides, but also because you have to reverse it into the helicopter, since that's the only way to offload quickly at the landing zone.
   
   
2. Depending on ceiling clearance, it may be necessary to load it with the crew inside and then keep them inside for the duration of the flight. It's do-able but means that the crew is probably trapped if there's a crash landing.

So it's possible: the US Army has internally loaded HMMWV, which are marginally wider than the 2m I've seen quoted for the LuWa, but the extra width of the CH-53 may make a substantial difference in the practicality of doing so.

 

[TomS]

CH-47 cargo area is 2.29m wide

CH-53D/E is the same width within about a centimeter or two.

 

[BB1984]

CH-47 cargo area is 2.29m wide

CH-53D/E is the same width within about a centimeter or two.

You're correct; I was thinking of the K model which expands that out to 2.62m

 

[Basil]

Interesting that they do not use band tracks which really seem to offer advantages over conventional steel tracks especially for lighter vehicles.

Primer: Composite Rubber Track (CRT)

Composite Rubber Track (CRT) is a relatively new method of manufacturing tracks, replacing segmented steel track assemblies with a single continuous 'band' of rubber track, made from a complex composite structure to withstand the tremendous forces involved. Its a remarkable bit of technology and...

www.tanknology.co.uk

 

[TomS]

Interesting that they do not use band tracks which really seem to offer advantages over conventional steel tracks especially for lighter vehicles.

Primer: Composite Rubber Track (CRT)

Composite Rubber Track (CRT) is a relatively new method of manufacturing tracks, replacing segmented steel track assemblies with a single continuous 'band' of rubber track, made from a complex composite structure to withstand the tremendous forces involved. Its a remarkable bit of technology and...

www.tanknology.co.uk

The metal track may just be for the prototypes, something more or less off the shelf for testing? That rendering up top shows something that looks a bit more like a rubber band track, though it might just be a CGI simplification.

One weird logistical issue might crop up. The LuWa has two different lengths of track on the two separate track units, which would mean needing to stock two different lengths of band for replacements. I know Diehl has worked on segmented rubber track instead (mentioned in your link) and that might work out for this design -- 3 segments up front, 2 on the back, or whatever the actual proportions work out to be.

 

[Basil]

Interesting that they do not use band tracks which really seem to offer advantages over conventional steel tracks especially for lighter vehicles.

Primer: Composite Rubber Track (CRT)

Composite Rubber Track (CRT) is a relatively new method of manufacturing tracks, replacing segmented steel track assemblies with a single continuous 'band' of rubber track, made from a complex composite structure to withstand the tremendous forces involved. Its a remarkable bit of technology and...

www.tanknology.co.uk

I know Diehl has worked on segmented rubber track instead (mentioned in your link) and that might work out for this design -- 3 segments up front, 2 on the back, or whatever the actual proportions work out to be.

Diehl has spun off this business unit which now operates under the name DST (seems to be under the roof of KMW now).

Home | KNDS Tracks

KNDS KNDS Deutschland

www.defence-st.com

 

[kqcke for you]

https://soldat-und-technik.de/2023/...ng-und-produktion-des-wiesel-nachfolgers-aus/
So 89 LuWa for now and atleast hybrid is coming. Tought the 27mm and Splitt Tracks may not

 

[kqcke for you]

Further details about LuWa:
- 56 LuWa MK25, 24 LuWa MELLS and 9 LuWa Driving School are to be ordered
- Dimensions: 4.2m*1.87m*1.9m
- The structure is modular
- Ground pressure of 5 N/cm²
- v max. of 90km/h required on the road
- STANAG 4569 Level 2 probably maximum

Technische Details zum Luftbeweglichen Waffenträger (LuWa) bekanntgegeben

Die Bundeswehr beabsichtigt, die Waffenträger Wiesel 1 MK und MELLS zu Beginn der 2030er Jahre mit dem Nachfolgefahrzeug Luftbeweglicher Waffenträger (LuWA) zu ersetzen und hat deshalb jüngst ein Verhandlungsverfahren mit Teilnahmewettbewerb für die Entwicklung von Vorserienfahrzeugen und...

soldat-und-technik.de

 

[kqcke for you]

LuWa is quite over budget and seems to be done...

https://www.hartpunkt.de/quo-vadis-...ftbeweglicher-waffentraeger-wird-abgebrochen/

 

[kqcke for you]

LuWa is quite over budget and seems to be done...

https://www.hartpunkt.de/quo-vadis-...ftbeweglicher-waffentraeger-wird-abgebrochen/

It makes sense. I mean 2 soldiers with equipment, the gun and 200 shoots (we also assume the munition handling system) are already ~1t. The demonstrator also had an diesel electric engine layout (atleast heavier than wiesels set up while also vastly more expensive compared to just an Diesel engine). I mean the vehicle alone was supposed to be heavier and 20 km/h faster than wiesel. The maximum weight for combat was around 4.5t so we only got 3.5t for the engine, chassy, track, electronics, optics, protection and seats