TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

Umigami said:
So Kaan will get its local engine in 10 years
t.co

Turkish Aerospace inks deal to export KAAN fighter jets to Indonesia

Turkish Aerospace Industries signs agreement with PT Republik Aero Dirgantara and PT Dirgantara Indonesia to export 48 KAAN units during International Defense Industry Fair 2025 - Anadolu Ajansı
t.co t.co
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Ahem...
Combat-Master said:
Prototype engine by end of this year, prototype engine testing in 2026, integration on KAAN by 2032
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snne said:
Here's a direct quote:


the flight schedule of the P1 got delayed by a quarter (but we already knew that):

Regarding the sale to Indonesia:

On additional export orders:
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snne said:
That's true, the serial production with the indigenous engine is to begin in 2032.
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as mentioned earlier, this is thread is about Kaan. we already have a dedicated thread to Turkish missiles
 
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stealthflanker said:
Our MoF (Ministry of Finance) haven't even issued Blue Book yet. Like, logically purchase contract cannot be signed as it can only happen after Blue Book and then Green Book, and another set of bureaucracy regarding loan agreement.
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It'll take at least 7 years before the first Kaan is delivered and then another 3 years for the last one. Plenty of time for your bureaucracy to figure out the details.

In the meantime 2 Turkish frigates will be exported to Indonesia.

1753532689183.png
 
Waterballoon said:
It'll take at least 7 years before the first Kaan is delivered and then another 3 years for the last one. Plenty of time for your bureaucracy to figure out the details
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Yeah but contract signing can only happen as per regulations after the activities got something called PSP (Penetapan Sumber Pembiayaan). Basically we would have the loan ready for the purchase Before signing any form of contract. Otherwise the contract is simply cannot go active.

That's why im always sceptical on these kind of deals. Especially that the MoF havent issue any Blue or Green Book yet.
 
stealthflanker said:
Yeah but contract signing can only happen as per regulations after the activities got something called PSP (Penetapan Sumber Pembiayaan). Basically we would have the loan ready for the purchase Before signing any form of contract. Otherwise the contract is simply cannot go active.

That's why im always sceptical on these kind of deals. Especially that the MoF havent issue any Blue or Green Book yet.
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"Indonesian government regulation, which is still in place until 8 pm on 26-7- 2025 and not amended yet/annul, government official prohibited to sign contract without budget availability. For foreign loan, budget availability marked by PSP issuance by Finance Minister"
 
GTX said:
Does this finally end Indonesian interest in KF21?
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Indonesia just signed a revised agreement with KAI last month and an Indonesian pilot flew the KF-21 for the first time.
would not be surprised if at some point in the future, their air force will be focused primarily around Kaan, KF-21 and the FA-50. your "high", "mid", and light/low
 
helmutkohl said:
Indonesia just signed a revised agreement with KAI last month and an Indonesian pilot flew the KF-21 for the first time.
would not be surprised if at some point in the future, their air force will be focused primarily around Kaan, KF-21 and the FA-50. your "high", "mid", and light/low
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*coughs in French*
 
helmutkohl said:
Indonesia just signed a revised agreement with KAI last month and an Indonesian pilot flew the KF-21 for the first time.
would not be surprised if at some point in the future, their air force will be focused primarily around Kaan, KF-21 and the FA-50. your "high", "mid", and light/low
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From an Indonesian defense specialist:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1938423986997854630
View: https://x.com/AHelvas/status/1938423986997854630

https://twitter.com/x/status/1938809190874829122
View: https://x.com/AHelvas/status/1938809190874829122

https://twitter.com/x/status/1941060950737715328
View: https://x.com/AHelvas/status/1941060950737715328


What does our Indonesian SPF forumer @stealthflanker think?
 
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Umigami said:
One thing for sure about this guy, he's definitely not a fan of Turkish-stuff
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I fully get the doubts regarding a loan, but:

Honestly, even before these recent debates about the Kaan procurement (like during discussions among Indonesians on Turkey’s indigenous F-16 modernization or Aselsan’s naval radars on Indonesian vessels); I always got the feeling that he tends to be really negative about anything involving Turkey, mainly because deep down he's comparing Turkish achievements to Indonesia's and he’s not impressed with Indonesia’s own defense industry.

I get that Turkey and Indonesia are two of the biggest Muslim-majority countries in terms of financial and industrial size, but people like him are making unfair comparisons since the circumstances are all different, it’s like comparing apples and oranges. Nobody talks about all the hurdles Turkey had to get through in the last 50 years just to get to where it is now in terms of setting up an actual self-sufficient defence industry.

Just look at his tweet history:

https://x.com/search?q=from:mad:AHelvas turkish&t=CwRvMmocKgegV7Ww84RJtw&s=09

https://x.com/search?q=from:mad:AHelvas turkey&t=daiEDf5SKLrAN6MBUgUpMw&s=09

Diversification of armament source means Indonesia doesn't depend on sole supplier. But diversification still have limit, like three suppliers for each type of armament, not six or 10. Turkification isn't diversification, but to make Indonesia depend on Turkey as sole supplier.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1833798473608749085
View: https://x.com/AHelvas/status/1833798473608749085?t=o2sVjrs_jYG_ud4q77hT4g&s=19


Oh, so you have an issue with "becoming a field laboratory for Turkey", but you're totally fine with being one for other countries? Btw, subsystems for indigenous manned and unmanned AEW aircraft have been under developmemt for years already, with (subsystems) delivery to be made by 2027.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1830192044322779184
View: https://x.com/AHelvas/status/1830192044322779184?t=MI9Q_H5qbmKRSmHgYEUi6A&s=19


Even most Greeks are less biased against Turkey than this guy :D

Funnily enough, everything he has opposed so far w.r.t. Turkey has also come true :p
 
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ComradeVortex said:
I think he’s mostly concerned about the reliance on Turkish industry in the latest years
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I suspect that, as a former Jane's representative, he might be receiving *financial support* to create public support and lobby on behalf of foreign companies like those from South Korea.

If that’s true, I honestly can’t blame him; a man’s gotta eat, after all.
 
snne said:
Even most Greeks are less biased against Turkey than this guy :D

Funnily enough, everything he has opposed so far w.r.t. Turkey has also come true :p
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Well said,
snne said:
I suspect that, as a former Jane's representative, he might be receiving *financial support* to create public support and lobby on behalf of foreign companies like those from South Korea.

If that’s true, I honestly can’t blame him; a man’s gotta eat, after all.
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wouldn't be surprised, at all. Sadly most views about Turkey (and it's defence industry) are shaped by biases and not by the reality, too extreme on both spectrums. Either it is the best or it is the worst, there is no in between...
 
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The Turkish defence bosses are also partly to blame by making either vague relative statements about their product performances as well as the Turkish media in general for not asking specifics. Take that Anil Sahin guy from SST, he's basically Roketsans PR guy now, there is no hint of neutrality or objectivity. What also irks me is that sometimes, the Turkish defence bosses tell more about their products to foreign media than their own.

I remember how it started with with Otokars Altay project which they gave a first detailed interview to an English media outlet IIRC, with detailed schematics of the inside of the tank. Meanwhile their engagement with the Turkish media was nil.

Fast forward today, we need to scour foreign media to get specifics or wait for months for DefenceTurkey magazine to publish a detailed story about a certain subject.

We found out about Baykar projects to produce (turbine) engines through an unknown finance magazine. And their ambition to develop a 20000lbf turbofan through a Youtuber.
 
Combat-Master said:
TAI Large Subsonic Acoustic Wind Tunnel to be completed by 2023

Once the wind tunnel is completed, it is expected to serve the Turkish Fighter (MMU) first. The tunnel will then undertake important tasks in the testing stages of all platforms developed by Turkish Aerospace. The tunnel is also planned to execute tests for aircraft, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles, armed unmanned aerial vehicles, drones, ammunitions, missile systems, automobiles, race cars, trucks, radar systems, wind turbines, panels, traffic structures, construction structures, and bridges. During all tests, the newest techniques of particle image velocimetry will be used alongside classical methods such as special cameras, oil flow, and tuft tests to visualize the airflow. The Large Subsonic Acoustic Wind Tunnel, which will play an important role in indigenous product development, will increase the design capability of Turkish Aerospace in the development of air platforms. It will also contribute to the development of a domestic industry
View attachment 644044
• Single stage acoustic fan with 14.5 MW power
• A closed test section with a 6.4 m x 4.8 m test section. The maximum air speed in the test section is 126 m/s.
• A closed test section with a test section of 4.9 m x 3.7 m. The maximum air speed in the test section is 181 m/s.
• An open test section with a 6.4 m x 4.8 m test section. The maximum air speed in the test section is 107 m/s.
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TAI Wind Tunnel completed acceptance tests
1753700996853.png
www.tusas.com

Turkish Aerospace MAG - TUSAS

Turkish Aerospace MAG
www.tusas.com www.tusas.com

AI enhanced image; wind tunnel model of KAAN
1753702385816.png
 
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Combat-Master said:
TAI Wind Tunnel completed acceptance tests
View attachment 779456
www.tusas.com

Turkish Aerospace MAG - TUSAS

Turkish Aerospace MAG
www.tusas.com www.tusas.com

AI enhanced image; wind tunnel model of KAAN
View attachment 779458
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As an interim solution, Turkish Aerospace rented time on practically every wind tunnel available to them, both domestically and internationally -even in Pakistan- racking up time and data like crazy.

A side benefit of developing the Kaan is that it provides a strong justification for building the necessary infrastructure to develop such advanced products in the future. It's been claimed before that almost nowhere else in the world is such infrastructure concentrated on a single campus, as many of these facilities are newly built.

Deino said:
… still the old configuration or too small & blurry to know?

And do we have any understanding how the true prototype differs to to the Demonstrator?
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It has already been discussed many times; you should probably go back a couple of pages.
 

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