TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

Radonislav said:
https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/co...ly-by-turkish-aerospace-industries-tusas-6293
Indonesia signs for 48 Kaan with Turkish engines
Click to expand...
1000042473.gif

Ehm, excuse my shock, but when the hell did this happen? It really came out of nowhere, man...

I have lots of question marks in my head about this...

First of all, $10 billion for 48 Kaans? The production representative prototype hasn’t even flown yet.

Secondly, Indonesia is kind of infamous for committing to an aircraft type and then backing out, they simply don't have a good track record.

Third of all, future Indonesian Air Force to be composed of 48 Rafales and 48 Kaans? If that’s the case, I guess they’ve decided to take a bigger capability leap with the Kaan than with either the KF-21, F-15EX or the Su-35.

A RECORD-SETTING DEFENSE EXPORT AGREEMENT BETWEEN TÜRKİYE AND INDONESIA

THE DEAL COVERS THE SALE OF 48 UNITS OF THE NATIONAL COMBAT AIRCRAFT KAAN, DEVELOPED INDIGENOUSLY BY TURKISH AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES (TUSAŞ)

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TUSAŞ) has achieved a significant strategic milestone on the international stage. During the INDO Defence 2025 exhibition held in Indonesia, an agreement was signed between Türkiye and Indonesia for the sale of 48 units of the fifth-generation National Combat Aircraft, KAAN, which was designed, developed, and manufactured entirely with national resources. Under the agreement, the aircraft will be delivered to Indonesia.
The signing ceremony took place on June 11 in Jakarta with the participation of Indonesian President Prabowo Subianto, President of Defence Industries Haluk Görgün, Indonesian Minister of Defense Sjafrie Sjamsoeddin, Chairman of TUSAŞ Ömer Cihad Vardan, Deputy Minister of National Defense and Vice Chairman of the TUSAŞ Board of Directors Şuay Alpay, and TUSAŞ CEO Dr. Mehmet Demiroğlu.
In accordance with the agreement, all 48 KAAN aircraft will be delivered within 120 months. The aircraft to be delivered will be powered by engines that will also be produced using Türkiye’s national capabilities.
This agreement covers not only the delivery of the KAAN aircraft but also includes significant technology transfer components in the field of aviation. Through this strategic cooperation, Türkiye and Indonesia aim to promote knowledge sharing and enhance local capabilities. The agreement also envisions leveraging Indonesia’s industrial infrastructure and production capacities for the KAAN program.
The first official announcement of the KAAN sale to Indonesia was made by the President of Türkiye, Mr. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. President Erdoğan stated:
“I hope this agreement, which clearly reflects the progress and capabilities of our domestic and national defense industry, will be beneficial for both Türkiye and Indonesia. I extend my sincere greetings and gratitude to my esteemed counterpart, President Prabowo Subianto of Indonesia, in whose presence this agreement was signed. I also congratulate our Presidency of Defence Industries, Turkish Aerospace Industries, and all institutions involved in the production of KAAN and in concluding this record-breaking export deal in our Republic’s history
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1932726635649720653
View: https://x.com/RTErdogan/status/1932726635649720653?t=B0jRuIa-Lei4aTE_hJJx2Q&s=19


https://twitter.com/x/status/1932691723521544453
View: https://x.com/clashreport/status/1932691723521544453?t=W9yzCxfJBMiMNykCvAAHoA&s=19

1000042474-jpg.773498

1000042475.jpg
 

Attachments

  • 1000042474.jpg
    1000042474.jpg
    1 MB · Views: 513
  • 1000042475.jpg
    1000042475.jpg
    843.2 KB · Views: 19
Last edited:
snne said:
Secondly, Indonesia is kind of infamous for committing to an aircraft type and then backing out, they simply don't have a good track record.
Click to expand...

Not sure why those Turkish media or even TUSAS themselves refer the MOU as a law binding purchase agreement of some sort.

What was actually signed was MOU (Memorandum of Understanding). It's basically just an intent. Pretty much like what was "signed" back in February.
 
stealthflanker said:
Not sure why those Turkish media or even TUSAS themselves refer the MOU as a law binding purchase agreement of some sort.

What was actually signed was MOU (Memorandum of Understanding). It's basically just an intent. Pretty much like what was "signed" back in February.
Click to expand...
The website of your source is absolute cancer…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1932749405213634920
(https://x.com/Flankerchan/status/1932749405213634920?t=l4_v5dnSfq5vrnD7RmhKpA&s=19]View: https://x.com/Flankerchan/status/1932749405213634920?t=l4\_v5dnSfq5vrnD7RmhKpA\&s=19](https://x.com/Flankerchan/status/1932749405213634920?t=l4_v5dnSfq5vrnD7RmhKpA&s=19


(This is a legitimate question) What kind of reputation do they have?

The way Erdoğan talks about it, I’m not sure if it’s *just* an MoU…

Turkish Aerospace also explicitly mentions when they sign a MoU - like in the case of the Hürjet deal with Spain and Airbus:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1922632674998378753
(https://x.com/TUSAS_EN/status/1922632674998378753?t=cmwFlecPth4tfge76EWSKg&s=19]View: https://x.com/TUSAS\_EN/status/1922632674998378753?t=cmwFlecPth4tfge76EWSKg\&s=19](https://x.com/TUSAS_EN/status/1922632674998378753?t=cmwFlecPth4tfge76EWSKg&s=19

Compare it with the language in this tweet:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1932742552177754248
View: https://x.com/TUSAS_EN/status/1932742552177754248?t=lz9va0wChoIJvIYUAuHnqA&s=19


We still have to wait until everything clears up, though.
 
snne said:
The website of your source is absolute cancer…
Click to expand...

That's how our local news sites devolve tho.. tons of ads. But they do have field reporter.

snne said:
We still have to wait until everything clears up, though.
Click to expand...

Yeah and dont expect much. Like i have posted how our financing system works, but it seems the excitement of supposed "deal" is just overshadowing the complexity behind it.

You should be asking too, things like what Bank will be funding the deal ? and our own state budget allocation, especially the latter as it's quite tight. While constitution demands that at least 7.5% of the value of the deal has to be backed by state budget which termed as "Rupiah Murni Pendamping". 15 B USD deal, means we have to prepare at least 1.12B, which kinda absent atm.
 
snne said:
The way Erdoğan talks about it, I’m not sure if it’s *just* an MoU…

Turkish Aerospace also explicitly mentions when they sign a MoU - like in the case of the Hürjet deal with Spain and Airbus:
Click to expand...
Was wondering what scope of an "agreement" it is as well, and it does seem like it is a MOU rather than something more legally binding like MOA. Though this definitely is a step forward from the "cooperation agreement" signed earlier this year, being much more concrete.

What I find funny is that there were some... rumors, being generous in calling them such, circulating since late last month concerning a revival of the Su-35S deal in this week's Indo Defence, but we got the MOU between Indonesia and Turkish defence industry instead. At least it makes much more sense than pursuing the Sukhoi deal again.

Anyways, I wonder which between the F-15ID or IF-X needs this agreement is replacing. If it's IF-X they'll probably also want local production, which was a major scope in that programme. Either way, I always felt that Kaan was better suited for Indonesian needs than either the Eagle II or Boramae, so good on them.
 

Attachments

  • 68492b55d7f66.jpg
    68492b55d7f66.jpg
    60.3 KB · Views: 15
Maro.Kyo said:
Either way, I always felt that Kaan was better suited for Indonesian needs than either the Eagle II or Boramae, so good on them.
Click to expand...
Why is that?
Either way I hope they actually stuck to something.. already we've seen the Rafale, F-15EX, Su-35, and J-10C being linked to Indonesia alongside the KF-21, the latter of which, they actually have some developmental input and tech transfers.
 
Anduriel said:
Why even bother with KAAN, when Indonesia has already a foot into the KF-21 development.
Click to expand...

Long story short tho, Since Mulyono administration, our military procurement stopped being having a "technical consideration" and more into "Embargo evasions" while right now it's more into "Expression of current president's inner child"
 
stealthflanker said:
No.. as the Cooperation agreement is also an MOU and not legally binding too. I was able to obtain the document, unfortunately only Indonesian version are available
Click to expand...
Yes, I understood that both are not legally binding. I was rather talking about the scope of the cooperation being discussed being more exact this time around with numbers to talk with, although how meaningful those numbers are, is to be seen.
helmutkohl said:
Why is that?
Either way I hope they actually stuck to something.. already we've seen the Rafale, F-15EX, Su-35, and J-10C being linked to Indonesia alongside the KF-21, the latter of which, they actually have some developmental input and tech transfers.
Click to expand...
Oh, by "always", I've meant "always since they procured Rafale". I think it might make sense that way.

Under Indonesia's MEF policy, Indonesian Air Force is aiming for a 11 squadron-strong fleet, or around 200 aircrafts. Now, I don't know if that includes 21 Squadron fitted with Super Tucanos, but either way, they currently operate 7 fast jet squadrons.

Of those 7, at least 4 (those who operate Hawk 109/209 and second hand F-16C/D which are both primarily used for surface strike) requires mid-term replacement fighters. Rafale, be it as a direct replacement of the figthers operated in currently existing squadrons or to fit new squadrons, will presumably replace the roles of those two types. 42 jets are 2~3 squadrons worth, and with additional order being discussed at the moment, that will make it 3~4 squadrons. (Indonesian AF standard squadron likely consists of 18 aircrafts from their past plans of acquiring 180 Flankers it seems, though they never really stick to the multiples of 18 when they procure fighter jets, making it a bit harder to tell which). Those Rafales are arguably better suited for such intended roles due to not being subject to confines of KF-21, which has a pretty inflexible centre store that could only handle BVRAAM or similarly sized missiles. Although that obviously doesn't mean KF-21 can't handle surface strike roles.

A bit more long term, their Flankers and F-16 AM/BM, a squadron worth of figthers each, needs replacement as well, and their fleet will be almost completely overhauled. It depends on how current and future American administration handles CAATSA, but I'd guess that it is safe to assume that they wouldn't operate their Flankers any longer than their SLEP Falcons. The question is what they replace these 2 squadrons, and fill the need for 3~5 additional squadrons with.

I said Kaan is more ideal, since it will presumably have longer range than KF-21 for a given mission profile, better suited as a replacement for Flankers that they already operate and planned to. It is better than F-15EX in terms of being more future-proof while being about the same size. Moreover, KF-21 is same class of a fighter as Rafale, and procuring two different jets of the same class, with only a few years in between them sounds pretty counter proudctive from a logistics and sustainment perspective, at which point I'd argue more Rafales makes much more sense. Though I've seen Indonesians argue that they need diversified fleet due to their experience, and there's even a talk about J-10s so maybe it's a moot point for them.

Obviously, Kaan will come later than both the Eagle II and Boramae, but considering the fact that there are already difficulties fulfilling MEF requirements on-time due to funding and other issues, it seems like Indonesia ain't hurrying themselves.
 
Last edited:
20250612_170720.jpg

rough translation for the non-indonesians:

Already Signed MoU in Indo Defence, Ministry of Defense Says Procurement of KAAN Fighter Aircraft is Still in Planning Stage

The procurement of new fighter jets as the main strategic weapon system (alutsista) for the Indonesian Air Force continues to be a public concern. After the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MoU) in front of President Prabowo Subianto at the Indo Defense 2024 event, the Ministry of Defense (Kemhan) said that the procurement of Turkish-made KAAN fighter jets was still in the planning stage.

This was conveyed by Deputy Minister of Defense (Wamenhan) Donny Ermawan Taufanto when confirmed by the media crew on Thursday (12/6). According to him, the procurement of the fifth generation fighter jet is a long-term plan. So the procurement is not done immediately. He emphasized this even though information is circulating that there is a plan to procure 48 KAAN fighter jets.

"That is still in the planning stage, it has not yet (reached the point of purchase), in the future it is still long term," he added.
 
Slight OT.

Su 30/27 will be gone despite potential
Ex-PLAAF J-10s are just rumours
KAAN only a dream, maybe
KF-21 still in dark tunnel

Actually we just hope on
F-16V, Rafale, F15EX at near time


So, in the future, Indonesian Air Force may operating:

Sukhoi-27
Sukhoi-30
F-16
T/A-50
Hawk-209
Rafale
KF-21 ( Probably ) x
Sukhoi-35 ( Rumour )
F-15EX ( Rumour )
J-10A/C ( Rumour )
KAAN ( Rumour )
 
ComradeVortex said:
So, in the future, Indonesian Air Force may operating:

Sukhoi-27
Sukhoi-30
F-16
T/A-50
Hawk-209
Rafale
KF-21 ( Probably ) x
Sukhoi-35 ( Rumour )
F-15EX ( Rumour )
J-10A/C ( Rumour )
KAAN ( Rumour )
Click to expand...

imho, to consolidate the fleet for the next 15 years...
I think they should retire the F-16s (too old), the Flankers (old and also CAATSA), and Hawks (old).
Focus on Rafale for immediate needs, keep the T-50 for training, and focus on the Kaan (expanding Indo-Turkish links, 5th gen design, and likely the range for Indonesia's vast territory) and Boramae (offers some industrial offsets, tech transfers, and also something they can start receiving within the next 5 years while the Kaan arrives later)
 
ComradeVortex said:
Slight OT.

Su 30/27 will be gone despite potential
Ex-PLAAF J-10s are just rumours
KAAN only a dream, maybe
KF-21 still in dark tunnel

Actually we just hope on
F-16V, Rafale, F15EX at near time


So, in the future, Indonesian Air Force may operating:

Sukhoi-27
Sukhoi-30
F-16
T/A-50
Hawk-209
Rafale
KF-21 ( Probably ) x
Sukhoi-35 ( Rumour )
F-15EX ( Rumour )
J-10A/C ( Rumour )
KAAN ( Rumour )
Click to expand...
Competing with the Egyptians ?
 
NMaude said:
Is that a local Turkish design or something foreign?
Click to expand...
It's obviously Turkish, designed by TRMotor. Everything in the plane, except for the engines, the ejection seat, and some valves, is already indigenous.

The sensors OTOH are all either in prototype manufacturing, testing or integration phases.

You can go as far back as page 18 to find posts about the APU.

I've spent an awful amount of time to fetch these images for you :):

1000042685.png

Subcontractors:

(Local subcontractors)
1000042686.jpg

(Global subcontractors)
1000042687.jpg
 
Last edited:
Combat-Master said:
Prototype engine by end of this year, prototype engine testing in 2026, integration on KAAN by 2032
Click to expand...
Here's a direct quote:

“We [have] already started working on” the new TF35000 turbofan engine, Mehmet Demiroğlu, general manager at TAI, told Breaking Defense at Le Bourget, adding that work is being done jointly by Tusas Engine Industries (TEI) and TRMotor. As part of the system’s preliminary design phase, a “conceptual design is almost done,” he added, “and then it will go to initial prototyping maybe by the end of the year.”

Additionally, Demiroğlu said that “some early testing” of the powerplant is planned in 2026 and integration on KAAN could be a reality starting in 2032.
Click to expand...
the flight schedule of the P1 got delayed by a quarter (but we already knew that):
Demiroğlu said that a prototype flight test campaign will be “very active” in the near future based off plans for a first non-demonstrator aircraft (P1) to start flying in the first quarter of 2026, P2 to follow in the second quarter of next year, in advance of P3 taking to the skies by “early” 2027 at the latest.
Click to expand...
Regarding the sale to Indonesia:
At a separate media event, Demiroğlu told reporters that a first KAAN international sale with Indonesia for 48 aircraft “will be finalized [in the] next couple of months because there are some technical requirements that we need to finalize.”
Click to expand...
On additional export orders:
On the prospect of additional orders Demiroğlu added, “I can tell you, if not this year — I’m hoping this year — but if not this year, early next year, we will hear something as big as Indonesia.”
Click to expand...
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom