TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

WatcherZero said:
BARBAROS DEMİRBAŞ (chief test pilot) interview after first installed engine test last May:
Click to expand...
per airforce supercruise falls under 5th gen, so without the TF-35000 it wont be classified as a 5th gen by TurAF. This is like claiming J-20 is not 5th gen because it used Russian and then "4th gen" engines
 
snne said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1760334242213466596
View: https://x.com/SavunmaSanayiST/status/1760334242213466596?s=20
Click to expand...
From the Pilot:

- Aircraft was sending over 10.000 real time data to ground

- Test control center consists of 50 engineers from 15 different disciplines. They are able to follow the flight much earlier than I felt or saw.

- They gave clearance to me every stage of flight

- Following pilot monitoring the external view of the aircraft in case of leaking fuel.

- Movement of horizontal stabilizers are normal behavior of control characteristics of aircraft because the flight control computer wants to preserve take off very precisely during low speed and low dynamic pressure.
Click to expand...
 
siegecrossbow said:
To be fair we don’t know what the criteria for six generation is. Before F-22 was officially unveiled other countries had very different ideas about what next gen fighter is like.
Click to expand...
True, some people were saying that the Typhoon was 5th generation due to maneuverability.

Then F-22 made stealth and supercruise the definition of 5th generation.

Kaan is 5th generation shape and systems, the prototype is flying on F100 F110 engines so as a whole the plane is arguably 4.75gen.
 
Last edited:
Scott Kenny said:
True, some people were saying that the Typhoon was 5th generation due to maneuverability.

Then F-22 made stealth and supercruise the definition of 5th generation.

Kaan is 5th generation shape and systems, the prototype is flying on F100 engines so as a whole the plane is arguably 4.75gen.
Click to expand...
Ahem. ackchyually the powerplant is F110-GE-129E. It uses the same engine as F-15EX. That's why we sometimes humorously refer to Kaan as a stealth F-15.
 
Scott Kenny said:
True, some people were saying that the Typhoon was 5th generation due to maneuverability.

Then F-22 made stealth and supercruise the definition of 5th generation.

Kaan is 5th generation shape and systems, the prototype is flying on F100 engines so as a whole the plane is arguably 4.75gen.
Click to expand...
These classifications don't matter since it all comes down to how you market the aircraft. It is the same reason why NG classifies B-21 as 6th gen or why Lockmart calls F-35 with adaptive cycle engines as 5.5th, or why various European manufacturers classify their respective aircraft as 4.5th gen or more (i.e., stealthier).

We haven't even figured out what the difference between 5th and 6th gens is even though there are various programs in active development right now. There's no diffinitive difference between 5th and 6th gens.

How you market your aircraft doesn't matter on the battlefield, what matters in the end is, in simplistic words, the quality and the quantity of your equipment.
 
snne said:
I really hate that canopy bar. I hope they'll replace it before the serial production. It does a disservice to all other RCS-reducing features of the aircraft.
Click to expand...
I believe it is an interim solution and will change later on. It was a last minute hustle to fly this thing to begin with.
 
Last edited:
Do we have any numbers on how many turky is planning to buy? Presumably more then the 100 f35s they had planed to buy orgonaly.
 
Cjc said:
Do we have any numbers on how many turky is planning to buy? Presumably more then the 100 f35s they had planed to buy orgonaly.
Click to expand...
250 over at least a 20 year span. 24 per year, initial 10 B10 aircraft to be delivered by 2028.

First 20-40 aircraft are planned to be procured with F110s while the indigenous engine starts flight tests in 2028.
 
Last edited:
datafuser said:
Does anyone have an updated program schedule?

The Kaan flew ahead of this old schedule.

View attachment 720633
Click to expand...
It didn't flew "ahead of it's schedule". The aircraft that flew was not meant to fly in the original plan, is not EMD representative and doesn't have any mission critical avionics. TAI claims that the progress of design phase is ahead of initial plan, but that's a separate story.
 
Combat-Master said:
It will indeed, once the wind tunnel in Turkey is completed they will improve upon RCS and aerodynamic design - this will remain confidential, whereas the current flying modelled locally by computers in Turkey as well as in a third party countries wind tunnel.
Click to expand...
Good.
Placement of air intakes and cockpit, also nose shape don't look great.
 
Umigami said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1760546187868828127
View: https://twitter.com/TUSAS_TR/status/1760546187868828127?s=19


Is its seat less recline than F16 and F35?
View attachment 720637
View attachment 720638

View attachment 720639
Click to expand...
It does look a little straighter, which surprises me a bit. At least in terms of seat energetics, you want to have the smallest possible number of different seats in the inventory.

The reason I'm less surprised is that the F-16 seatback angle proved to be less of an advantage in G-tolerance than expected.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Single AMRAAM or full F-35 sized?
Click to expand...
We still don't have a confirmation of weapon bays config though. It may have changed, the one below was presented during Anatolian Eagle '21.

MMU-Muhimmat-Kapasitesi.jpg
60dd81f047506.jpg 60dd81f047f7d.jpg

These show the aircraft at roughly 18 meter length but we know that since then it became longer and larger/heavier.

For example here's @paralay 's calculation:

235149-fff999168ae4a0d05360d3bdd706ec16.jpg
 
Last edited:
snne said:
For example here's @paralay 's calculation:

235149-fff999168ae4a0d05360d3bdd706ec16.jpg
Click to expand...
Stop using his wrong calculations. TAI has given official dimensions of 21x14x6. No need for a rando to come up with his own wrong views.
 
Waterballoon said:
Stop using his wrong calculations. TAI has given official dimensions of 21x14x6. No need for a rando to come up with his own wrong views.
Click to expand...
Well actually not, official numbers are rounded up. Paralay is actually*nearly* correct with 20.1m length, real length of Kaan atm is around 20.2m
 
Waterballoon said:
Stop using his wrong calculations. TAI has given official dimensions of 21x14x6. No need for a rando to come up with his own wrong views.
Click to expand...
Well his position on the Ukr War doesn't matter to me but has anything else happened beside that? I'm also not presenting his calculations as facts, I'm just using it to show that the aircraft enlarged. We have no concrete specs yet.
 
Radonislav said:
Well actually not, official numbers are rounded up. Paralay is actually*nearly* correct with 20.1m length, real length of Kaan atm is around 20.2m
Click to expand...

snne said:
Well his position on the Ukr War doesn't matter to me but has anything else happened beside that? I'm also not presenting his calculations as facts, I'm just using it to show that the aircraft enlarged. We have no concrete specs yet.
Click to expand...
This is so disappointing, but whatever: https://tusas.com/urunler/yeni-projeler/ozgun/kaan
 
Waterballoon said:
This is so disappointing, but whatever: https://tusas.com/urunler/yeni-projeler/ozgun/kaan
Click to expand...
You really believe the length is exactly 21 meters, the span is exactly 14 meters, and height is exactly 6 meters?

There is absolutely no doubt that those figures in meters have been rounded, as can be witnessed by the equivalent measurements in feet in brackets also being rounded to non decimal point whole numbers.
 
Last edited:
kaiserbill said:
You really believe the length is exactly 21 meters, the span is exactly 14 meters, and height is exactly 6 meters?
Click to expand...
Could be, but it is closer to 21 than it is to 20 and closer to 14 than 13.

kaiserbill said:
There is absolutely no doubt that those figures in meters have been rounded, as can be witnessed by the equivalent measurements in feet in brackets also being rounded to non decimal point whole numbers.
Click to expand...
And if we take the dimensions in ft, it is even larger than 21x14x6...
 
helmutkohl said:
this discussion on the Kaan's length brings back memories of how people on the internet had fierce debates on the J-20's length when it first came out.. right @Deino ?
Click to expand...
Well that's usually what happens when heavy fighters get revealed for the first time. The exact numbers don't mean anything, what matters is, if things go the way they should, Turkey is going to have a very capable air superiority fighter on its hands. And I don't think there are no non-superpower countries that can match this capability until 2040 when GCAP and FCAS come online.

Basically Kaan is supposed to combine some unique features of Su-57 (DIRCM, Side Arrays, IRST) with Western stealth+sensor philosophy into an F-35 (VLO, EOTS/DAS, etc.) inspired airframe. It'll end up being an expensive but very unique and capable aircraft. This will make Aselsan's job very tough and there won't be many customers lining up except say, some Gulf countries.
 
We used to consider Turkey to be 'Asia Minor', not that makes it just another Asia stealth fighter.
 
snne said:
Turkey belongs to neither Asia nor Europe. It is in its own geograpy. It is an Anatolian or at the very least a Eurasian country.

Now could we get back to the topic please???
Click to expand...
That was one of the subtopics of this thread within the past 24 hours. I guess you meant discussion of its dimensions. I'm interested in its sensors but this model is devoid of most of that stuff. Turkey is too small an economy to support this design without hurting its people, so there must be partners. I am guessing UAE is lined up to invest but who else?
 
MadRat said:
That was one of the subtopics of this thread within the past 24 hours. I guess you meant discussion of its dimensions. I'm interested in its sensors but this model is devoid of most of that stuff. Turkey is too small an economy to support this design without hurting its people, so there must be partners. I am guessing UAE is lined up to invest but who else?
Click to expand...
Turkey is one of the leading countries in NATO, it has the 17th largest economy and TurAF is no African or Southeast Asian airforce either. Just the recent F-16V purchase tells you that 1) Turkey can afford large purchases 2) It continues to invest heavily in its air force.

I mean c'mon, just a couple of years ago they were planning to purchase 100+ F-35s AND develop the TF-X at the same time, has there been something huge to deter these investments? They haven't bought any new aircraft in the last 20 years except some 29 F-16B50+ and the recent 40 new F-16V order. They've been allocating budget for future projects (MMU/Kaan and F-35) all this time.

People should realize that economic problems you hear of every day don't have the same effect on governments and the people.
 
Last edited:
snne said:
Turkey is one of the leading countries in NATO, it has the 17th largest economy and TurAF is no African or Southeast Asian airforce either. Just the recent F-16V purchase tells you that 1) Turkey can afford large purchases 2) It continues to invest heavily in its air force.

I mean c'mon, just a couple of years ago they were planning to purchase 100+ F-35s AND develop the TF-X at the same time, has there been something huge to deter these investments? They haven't bought any new aircraft in the last 20 years except some 29 F-16B50+ and the recent 40 new F-16V order. They've been allocating budget for future projects (MMU/Kaan and F-35) all this time.

People should realize that economic problems you hear of every day don't have the same effect on governments and the people.
Click to expand...

Yes and no while turkey is a large a fairly developed economy , irresponsible state finaces are hardly conducive enviroment .
And as it occasionally slips under sanctions regimes by both US and EU , making a plane with 80+ foreign made and developed content always carries some risk that these projects could be snufed out at will.

Turkish defence industry and arms purchases relly heavily on Qatar funding in in exchange for Turk protection against Sauds.

Not to disimilar to how many of Egypt's arms purchases are financed by third countries
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom