TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

[Canardzz]

Ah I see

 

[Canardzz]

TAI TF-X!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638639390158200832

View: https://twitter.com/SavunmaSanayiST/status/1638639390158200832?s=20

 

[VTOLicious]

The nose section looks odd. Pointed up like the bow of a boat. However, an interesting addition to the 4.5/5th generation fighter club!

 

[snne]

The nose section looks odd. Pointed up like the bow of a boat. However, an interesting addition to the 4.5/5th generation fighter club.

Call me crazy but this prototype has more 5th gen features than any other (supposedly) 4.5th gen aircraft.

Also the paint job (livery) is terrible. This is the climax of 50+ years of hardship and work, and here you come and showcase it with an ugly digital camo. Absolutely horrific.

 

[Canardzz]

The nose section looks odd. Pointed up like the bow of a boat. However, an interesting addition to the 4.5/5th generation fighter club.

Call me crazy but this prototype has more 5th gen features than any other (supposedly) 4.5th gen aircraft.

Also the paint job (livery) is terrible. This is the climax of 50+ years of hardship and work, and here you come and showcase it with an ugly digital camo. Absolutely horrific.

I won't stay for long. Don't worry.

 

[Canardzz]

TAI TF-X!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638639390158200832

View: https://twitter.com/SavunmaSanayiST/status/1638639390158200832?s=20

Dude you always write "TAI TF-X!!1!1". Like, c'mon, can't you express yourself any other way? Lol But you're extremely fast on sharing it though.

Nahhhh that is my excited expression

 

[snne]

 

[alberchico]

I would imagine that later on they could unveil a special livery commemorating the 100 years since the founding of the Turkish republic. Pakistan did an interesting livery with their first JF-17

 

[siegecrossbow]

The nose section looks odd. Pointed up like the bow of a boat. However, an interesting addition to the 4.5/5th generation fighter club!

My theory is that it provides a greater field of view for the EOTS mounted on top of the radome.

 

[VTOLicious]

The nose section looks odd. Pointed up like the bow of a boat. However, an interesting addition to the 4.5/5th generation fighter club!

My theory is that it provides a greater field of view for the EOTS mounted on top of the radome.

I don't get your rationale

 

[helmutkohl]

nice, we finally have some side view pics!
I hope that we can get some high resolutions of the the third pic so we could figure out its bay arrangement.

its really interesting how far forward the intakes are.
from the front view, it looks like the lockheed/boramae/FC1-31
but from the sideview it looks quite different and unique

its also a lot thicker than the mock ups too

 

[helmutkohl]

a comparison of the real plane and the mock up they kept using

looking back, its obviously different
but the general lay out is roughly the same

 

[snne]

Some more screen caps.

 

[snne]

a comparison of the real plane and the mock up they kept using

looking back, its obviously different
but the general lay out is roughly the same
View attachment 696240

The main changes vis-a-vis the mock-up are the tailbone (meaning enlargement of the fuselage) and the location of the weapon bays. In short the aircraft got a bit fat which is a good thing in a 5th gen aircraft's case.

 

[Bounce]

Plus the F-35 style hinged horizontal tails, which according to a few pages back are the size of an F-16 main wing, this thing is huge.

 

[snne]

Plus the F-35 style hinged horizontal tails, which according to a few pages back are the size of an F-16 main wing, this thing is huge.

Yeah everything about this plane screams a high altitude air supremacy fighter (large control surfaces, EOTS&IRST, large radome, powerful engines, etc.)

I mean look at the size of that vertical stabilizer. It truly might be as big as an F-16 wing.

 

[Trident]

looking back, its obviously different
but the general lay out is roughly the same

Also the F-15-like underslung main landing gear. The intake location recalls the YF-22.

 

[siegecrossbow]

The nose section looks odd. Pointed up like the bow of a boat. However, an interesting addition to the 4.5/5th generation fighter club!

My theory is that it provides a greater field of view for the EOTS mounted on top of the radome.

I don't get your rationale

Roll a sheet of paper into a cone and hold it up to your nose until it is completely covered. Look down that pipe. Now flatten the top of the cone a little bit and see if you observe any difference looking forward.

 

[snne]

Roomy

 

[Silencer1]

a comparison of the real plane and the mock up they kept using

looking back, its obviously different
but the general lay out is roughly the same
View attachment 696240

Note, that mock-up' picture is heavily distorted. Thus represent its proportions even more different to the actual aircraft. Anyway, mock-up general layout is similar with TF-X

 

[helmutkohl]

here is the full video of todays?ysterday?
taxi roll

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXf091ZmZ6U

 

[FighterJock]

First flight cannot be that far away? After the first taxi run.

 

[TomcatViP]

Hummm, one single engine was used?

 

[Geo]

It reminded me of something... I know it!

 

[windcalm]

here is the full video of todays?ysterday?
taxi roll

Are they using asymmetric thrust to steer the aircraft?"

 

[Ainen]

The nose section looks odd. Pointed up like the bow of a boat. However, an interesting addition to the 4.5/5th generation fighter club.

Call me crazy but this prototype has more 5th gen features than any other (supposedly) 4.5th gen aircraft.

What is 4.5 gen in it?
The way public consciousness goes (stealth=5 gen), it's 5th gen. Simple and straightforward.

 

[FighterJock]

You are forgetting about supermaneuverability and advanced avionics as to what makes a fifth generation fighter Ainen.

 

[Trident]

Are they using asymmetric thrust to steer the aircraft?"

I expect it's because residual thrust from two engines already is quite high, so modulating taxi speed by changing only one throttle probably gives finer adjustment. They might also be checking how asymmetric thrust affects handling. Steering would almost certainly be effected in one of the usual ways, either with asymmetric braking (though with the narrow track I'm not sure how well that would work) or nose wheel steering.

 

[Ainen]

You are forgetting about supermaneuverability and advanced avionics as to what makes a fifth generation fighter Ainen.

'advanced electronics' is hard to quantify - what is advanced? TFX makes all the checkboxes - which isn't too unexpected for an aircraft designed in 2010s, (to be)flown in 2020s, and introduced in 2030s..
30 long years since F-22.

p.s. not all 5th generation aircraft are supermaneuverable(per definition; some unflown prototypes were outright unmaneuverable.
And TF-X will probably be quite maneuverable.

Overall - for that 5th gen is used, it's clearly it.
And beyond that broad meaning - generations the way they exist just suck.


p.s. the way its body is configured really reminds me of A6J - with the bay opening in a different way.

 

[RAP]

I notice that there is no HUD, will there be a F-35 style helmet?

 

[Nart]

I notice that there is no HUD, will there be a F-35 style helmet?

Yes, Aselsan will make the helmet.

 

[Ainen]

So, to summarize the prototype:

If everything goes as planned, we are to have:

-4th stealth("5th gen") heavy fighter; with two F110s it only foes there; same subgroup with KF-21, J-35 and (if it will fly) Su-75.

-While Turkish members comment on strong A2A focus - chosen bay configuration and dedicated A2G 360 deg IRST strongly hint towards a true multirole. Heavy fighter of this size can do it without significant sacrifices, in any case.

-optics-heavy configuration - in fact, even richer than Rafale: two independent, fully functional internal IRSTs(most probably actually two separate sensors with different bands and sensor configurations, too) with some field overlap is new. Sorta J-20+F-35 in this sense.

-as noted above - no HUD.

 

[Manuducati]

looking back, its obviously different
but the general lay out is roughly the same

Also the F-15-like underslung main landing gear. The intake location recalls the YF-22.

Exactly, and it was suboptimal in drag and pilot visibility. Cockpit was then moved forward, and intakes backwards for the production F-22A. Will the production TFX follow the same path?

 

[snne]

RoomyView attachment 696250

Is this the ejection seat? If so, MMU and KF-21 share the same seat

 

[Nart]

RoomyView attachment 696250

Is this the ejection seat? If so, MMU and KF-21 share the same seat

View attachment 696274

Not exactly. TF-X's seat is a mix between MK16-US16E (F-35) and MK18-US18E (F-16 Block 70/72).

 

[Maro.Kyo]

I notice that there is no HUD, will there be a F-35 style helmet?

View attachment 696262View attachment 696261
Yes, Aselsan will make the helmet.

It resembles BAE Striker II quite a lot. I'd say it ain't a coincidence since BAE also helped them out with basic design phase (phase-1 stage-1 in the development timeline).

Does anyone know if BAE is still involved in stage-2? Last time I've heard a news about it, BAE and the Turkish government were negotiating for the stage-2 technical assistance.

 

[red admiral]

Does anyone know if BAE is still involved in stage-2?

Yes. There are quite a lot of BAES staff in Turkiye.

 

[snne]

Does anyone know if BAE is still involved in stage-2?

Yes. There are quite a lot of BAES staff in Turkiye.

Around 150 afaik. It actually isn't that much considering there are thousands of engineers that are directly working on the programme at TAI. Their main role seems to be consultancy.

 

[snne]

I notice that there is no HUD, will there be a F-35 style helmet?

View attachment 696262View attachment 696261
Yes, Aselsan will make the helmet.

It resembles BAE Striker II quite a lot. I'd say it ain't a coincidence since BAE also helped them out with basic design phase (phase-1 stage-1 in the development timeline).

Does anyone know if BAE is still involved in stage-2? Last time I've heard a news about it, BAE and the Turkish government were negotiating for the stage-2 technical assistance.

Afaik BAE is responsible for supporting TAI's design activities and that does not include avionics and such that are developed by Aselsan. Thus there actually isn't a connection between the companies. But the resemblance is there, I agree on that.

Aselsan actually has a history of developing HMDs primarily for attack helicopters as shared by @Combat-Master here before:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/aselsan-helmet-integrated-cueing-systems.39518/

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Afaik BAE is responsible for supporting TAI's design activities and that does not include avionics and such that are developed by Aselsan. Thus there actually isn't a connection between the companies. But the resemblance is there, I agree on that.

Aselsan actually has a history of developing HMDs primarily for attack helicopters as shared by @Combat-Master here before:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/aselsan-helmet-integrated-cueing-systems.39518/

Yes, I'm aware of ASELSAN HMDs for ATAK and don't get me wrong, I ain't saying that BAE would've been seriously involved with the HMD design. Though it is in the realm of possibility that the Turkish engineers would've gotten some hints or directions from BAE folks on how a next gen HMD should look like, what it must be able to do, possibile ways of realizing those features etc. That's in fact is the kind of knowledge a TAC should provide afterall.