TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

[Canardzz]

TAI's RCS test facility will be constructed. It will be operational in 2024, a year after the rollout of the initial prototype.

 

[Combat-Master]

TAI's RCS test facility will be constructed. It will be operational in 2024, a year after the rollout of the initial prototype.


View attachment 681981

TAI are investing heavily in infrastructure;

 

[Canardzz]

So Mete Yarar apparently visited TAI, spoke of the TF-X. Here are some of the things he said...

"TF-X's assembly has begun. They've already finished the construction of its large hangar. They've also begun constructing the aircraft's mass production facilities."
"Concerning the aircraft, the first thing that I will say is that it's massive. Comparing it to the F-16 won't be wise. The aircraft has its sections, and some of those sections are as big as the wing of an F-16. It's that big."

He also talks about Hurjet, Hurkus, Gokbey and the F-16 Ozgur (which is a more secretive program than the TF-X according to him).

 

[Combat-Master]

So Mete Yarar apparently visited TAI, spoke of the TF-X. Here are some of the things he said...

"TF-X's assembly has begun. They've already finished the construction of its large hangar. They've also begun constructing the aircraft's mass production facilities."
"Concerning the aircraft, the first thing that I will say is that it's massive. Comparing it to the F-16 won't be wise. The aircraft has its sections, and some of those sections are as big as the wing of an F-16. It's that big."

He also talks about Hurjet, Hurkus, Gokbey and the F-16 Ozgur (which is a more secretive program than the TF-X according to him).

F-16 Ozgur is being kept wrapped up for the most part in-case US decides that they aren't happy with some of the modifications to the aircraft. so it makes sense that it isn't as publicised - some of the engineers who were working on the project early on did pass away because of apparent suicides

here's a thread on the subject;
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...liberty-Özgür-modernisation.37242/post-459228

 

[RavenOne]

Attended Farnborough and saw mock up again (my pics)

Cheers

 

[Canardzz]

Attended Farnborough and saw mock up again (my pics)

Cheers

Amazing! Anything else? I don't think most people were allowed near the simulator.

 

[Canardzz]

CONFIRMATION

The TF-X is on the assembly line

 

[Combat-Master]

CONFIRMATION

The TF-X is on the assembly line

Mete Yarar Confirmed it like three weeks ago, he even mentioned that there were parts of the assembled TFX almost as large as an F-16. The thing is TUSAS does not allow cameras inside the TFX assembly facility so we won't see it being assembled. at least in the early stages..

Further more, Turkish Engine Industries and General Electric are trying to get F110-129 engine license produced in Turkey. The first blocks of the TFX produced will be powered by the F110 engine and likely number in the 30-40 airframes. Hence, there is a need of 60-80+ F110 engines, a fairly hefty number.

That should give Turkey some space to develop and integrate it's own engine, should there be delays in development.

 

[Canardzz]

CONFIRMATION

The TF-X is on the assembly line

Mete Yarar Confirmed it like three weeks ago, he even mentioned that there were parts of the assembled TFX almost as large as an F-16. The thing is TUSAS does not allow cameras inside the TFX assembly facility so we won't see it being assembled. at least in the early stages..

Yes but it is always good to confirm it yourself It's gonna be a nice looking aircraft.

 

[Alifzero]

Mete Yarar Confirmed it like three weeks ago, he even mentioned that there were parts of the assembled TFX almost as large as an F-16. The thing is TUSAS does not allow cameras inside the TFX assembly facility so we won't see it being assembled. at least in the early stages..

So we still can't get on the latest shape of TF-X? Can you confirm the shape of IRST will be the same as Farnborough cockpit model?

 

[Canardzz]

Mete Yarar Confirmed it like three weeks ago, he even mentioned that there were parts of the assembled TFX almost as large as an F-16. The thing is TUSAS does not allow cameras inside the TFX assembly facility so we won't see it being assembled. at least in the early stages..

So we still can't get on the latest shape of TF-X? Can you confirm the shape of IRST will be the same as Farnborough cockpit model?

Yes

 

[Combat-Master]

This is the APU that's being developed by TRMOTOR for TFX

 

[Canardzz]

This is the APU that's being developed by TRMOTOR for TFX
View attachment 683081

Nice catch! I never thought that was the APU. Was this image from Defence Hub btw?

 

[Canardzz]

TF-X's maiden flight has been revised back to 2025. It used to be 2026 according to the original plans.

 

[Combat-Master]

"We came together for lunch with the employees of the National Combat Aircraft (MMU) Integrated Processing Unit Project Gebze Campus.

We delivered the Integrated Processor Unit (IPU) and Avionic Interface Unit (DCU) prototypes to be used in the aircraft, which is planned to leave the hangar on March 18, 2023, to #tusaş on August 25.
Within the scope of the Integrated Processor Unit Project, where all hardware and software are developed locally and nationally;

There are many critical technologies such as the new multi-core version of the National Real Time Operating System, Deterministic Network Technology, Avionic Digital Video Bus, High Speed Multi-Core Processors."

 

[Canardzz]

Deputy General Manager of TAI's aircraft division Atilla Doğan has revealed today that the final assembly activities of the TF-X has commenced

 

[PringleiPrick]

"We came together for lunch with the employees of the National Combat Aircraft (MMU) Integrated Processing Unit Project Gebze Campus.

We delivered the Integrated Processor Unit (IPU) and Avionic Interface Unit (DCU) prototypes to be used in the aircraft, which is planned to leave the hangar on March 18, 2023, to #tusaş on August 25.
Within the scope of the Integrated Processor Unit Project, where all hardware and software are developed locally and nationally;

There are many critical technologies such as the new multi-core version of the National Real Time Operating System, Deterministic Network Technology, Avionic Digital Video Bus, High Speed Multi-Core Processors."

Here's some available info on TF-X's RTOS and ICP for those who are curious.

When I first heard of the TF-X I had this fear that TAI had licensed VxWorks or some other RTOS from abroad, and would therefore be subject to export restrictions. Thankfully that's not the case, and TÜBİTAK has been working on a (seemingly) very capable RTOS called GzİS (lit. Real Time Operating System) since at least 2017 [1]. HAVELSAN is also known to be a part of this project since 2020 [2]. Below are its features and capabilities:



Note how RISC-V support was added in 2021, presumably for ÇAKIL and its multicore successors. TF-X's ICP will likely run on the RISC-V architecture, which would be a world first. Other instruction set architectures like ARM and PPC must be licensed, so they are a no-go if the Turkish defence industry is seeking complete independence in strategic areas. Interestingly, in the board support section, most of the prototyping boards use the PPC architecture (mostly from FreeScale, now part of NXP), but this portion may be out of date (or other boards are classified).

With respect to performance, while (a multicore) ÇAKIL is woefully outdated relative to contemporary commercial offerings, L3 Harris' ICP used in the current F-35 blocks is no spring chicken either (L3 is working on a replacement). Unfortunately, we can only hope to match its mid-2000s capabilities initially.

Addendum: I think that the core processors will be supplemented with FPGAs tailored for very specific applications, which will greatly accelerate "hot" code paths (e.g., sensor fusion). YONGATEK's recent statements on national FPGAs supports this theory.

 

[Combat-Master]

"We came together for lunch with the employees of the National Combat Aircraft (MMU) Integrated Processing Unit Project Gebze Campus.

We delivered the Integrated Processor Unit (IPU) and Avionic Interface Unit (DCU) prototypes to be used in the aircraft, which is planned to leave the hangar on March 18, 2023, to #tusaş on August 25.
Within the scope of the Integrated Processor Unit Project, where all hardware and software are developed locally and nationally;

There are many critical technologies such as the new multi-core version of the National Real Time Operating System, Deterministic Network Technology, Avionic Digital Video Bus, High Speed Multi-Core Processors."

Here's some available info on TF-X's RTOS and ICP for those who are curious.

When I first heard of the TF-X I had this fear that TAI had licensed VxWorks or some other RTOS from abroad, and would therefore be subject to export restrictions. Thankfully that's not the case, and TÜBİTAK has been working on a (seemingly) very capable RTOS called GzİS (lit. Real Time Operating System) since at least 2017 [1]. HAVELSAN is also known to be a part of this project since 2020 [2]. Below are its features and capabilities:

View attachment 684391

Note how RISC-V support was added in 2021, presumably for ÇAKIL and its multicore successors. TF-X's ICP will likely run on the RISC-V architecture, which would be a world first. Other instruction set architectures like ARM and PPC must be licensed, so they are a no-go if the Turkish defence industry is seeking complete independence in strategic areas. Interestingly, in the board support section, most of the prototyping boards use the PPC architecture (mostly from FreeScale, now part of NXP), but this portion may be out of date (or other boards are classified).

With respect to performance, while (a multicore) ÇAKIL is woefully outdated relative to contemporary commercial offerings, L3 Harris' ICP used in the current F-35 blocks is no spring chicken either (L3 is working on a replacement). Unfortunately, we can only hope to match its mid-2000s capabilities initially.

Addendum: I think that the core processors will be supplemented with FPGAs tailored for very specific applications, which will greatly accelerate "hot" code paths (e.g., sensor fusion). YONGATEK's recent statements on national FPGAs supports this theory.

Further more on that subject;
Mr Ismail Demir: (Chip factory) "We have serious efforts to become a part of the company in Malaysia (Silterra) and then that will be transferred to Turkiye"

---
Turkey wants' to start producing chips nationally, there are efforts to setup a foundry that can produce 65nm chips reducing size with continued development

 

[Canardzz]

 

[FighterJock]

View attachment 685570
View attachment 685571

Nice find Canardzz, I especially like the top photo showing the helmet mounted display in action.

 

[Canardzz]

Some stuff you don't get to see very often

 

[Combat-Master]

View attachment 685570
View attachment 685571

Nice find Canardzz, I especially like the top photo showing the helmet mounted display in action.

From Aselsan's 4th Quarter Magazine showing HMD proposed for TFX

 

[Canardzz]

View attachment 685570
View attachment 685571

Nice find Canardzz, I especially like the top photo showing the helmet mounted display in action.

From Aselsan's 4th Quarter Magazine showing HMD proposed for TFX
View attachment 686123

Anything else from that magazine?

 

[Canardzz]

TF-X's Integrated Processing Unit will be displayed at SAHA EXPO

 

[Combat-Master]

View attachment 685570
View attachment 685571

Nice find Canardzz, I especially like the top photo showing the helmet mounted display in action.

From Aselsan's 4th Quarter Magazine showing HMD proposed for TFX
View attachment 686123

Anything else from that magazine?

Nothing of intrigue pertaining to TFX

--------------

Aselsan is developing TFX black box unit will meet EUROCAE ED-112A regulations

 

[Canardzz]

TF-X's VR simulator was exhibited




Looks like they did some formation flying with Hurjet

(NOTE! The cockpit avionics are not final here! The same thing can be said for the TF-X seen in the first picture. That is 1000% a placeholder design!)

 

[Canardzz]

Special thanks to CabatliTR over at DefenceHub for finding these

 

[Combat-Master]

 

[red admiral]

View attachment 686361

Going for hydraulic actuation rather than electro-hydrostatic?

 

[Canardzz]

Turkish company Petlas has showcased the tires that will be used on the TF-X

 

[Canardzz]

Alp Aviation National Programs Director Hüseyin Arıkan has revealed that they are currently producing landing gear subassemblies and detail components for the TF-X. They will start deliveries in November. CEO of TAI had already revealed that they were planning on integrating the landing gears to the TF-X in November. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[Combat-Master]

from defencehub.live

-There is one aircraft being assembled. And that is the GTU-0. Like aforementioned, no RAM paint.
-Forward fuselage, mid fuselage, mid-aft fuselage (includes wing assemblies) are all completed. Aft fuselage is nearing completion.
-The canopy has been delivered.
-The forward fuselage will be transferred to the final assembly line in a VERY VERY VERY VERY short time. No pictures will be posted.
-Much of the crucial systems will be present during rollout. Certain systems such as the HMD, IRST, EOTS and other systems aren't expected to be there at first.
-TAI is using unorthodox techniques and technologies while assembling the aircraft. I'm not allowed to give insight on any of these.
-Even TAI technicians on sight were surprised to see how fast the program was moving forward. Assembly work is certainly moving at an incredibly fast pace.
-There are around 200 technicians on sight.
-The MMU hangar has transformed from an empty warehouse with a half-built FF, to a genuine assembly facility. This, I can proudly confirm.
-F-110's on sight. No delays expected for the rest of the deliveries.
-Certainly no delays to the program as things stand.

 

[Canardzz]

Kale Group Technical Head regarding the TF-X/MMU engines

"Project TF-X will be the second 5th generation fighter aircraft to be developed in the world (?). Therefore, it is a very important project for our country. I can't explain enough how important this is. Having such a difficult technology will take this country to a completely different place. We set out to make a fighter jet engine, with all the rights to the engine of the plane."

"Here, we use Rolls-Royce as a technology resource. We established a joint company in Turkey. We have a partner company with Rolls-Royce, mostly ourselves. With this company, we have a concept in which nearly 400 Turkish engineers will be employed and the design and development work will be done in Turkey, with all the rights to us. In this way, we aspire to build the second 5th generation fighter jet engine in the world. We are still in talks with the SSB on this issue. We submitted the final version of our proposal. We are currently waiting for a decision. This is the point we have come to."

"However, as I said, it is a very complex project, a very difficult project. If it were easy, it would have done a lot in the world. Therefore, if we can bring this level of technology to our country, it is certain that it will be a very important reason for me to be happy."

 

[Canardzz]

Possibly looking at TF-X's radar

 

[PringleiPrick]

Approximate dimensions of the actual TF-X, derived from Canardzz' estimate and pics from Anatolian Eagle 2021.

[...]

This finally ends discussions regarding the actual length of the aircraft. Not 19 meters like the mock-up, but 21 meters. Just by looking at the photos above and some earlier (& not so well known) renders, we can see that the frontal fuselage is now starting to look a lot like the F-35.

EDIT: As I was saying that, the new photo shared didn't make the cockpit look that large. Slightly larger than the mock-up still. TAI might be playing their secrecy game again. We will find out soon enough.

[...]

I eyeballed the dimensions relative to the J-20, so take this with a massive grain of salt. Personally, I think it might be a little smaller in terms of height and length, maybe a little closer to the Su-57. In terms of wingspan, it's likely closest to the F-22, probably a little bigger.

 

[Canardzz]

Approximate dimensions of the actual TF-X, derived from Canardzz' estimate and pics from Anatolian Eagle 2021.

[...]

This finally ends discussions regarding the actual length of the aircraft. Not 19 meters like the mock-up, but 21 meters. Just by looking at the photos above and some earlier (& not so well known) renders, we can see that the frontal fuselage is now starting to look a lot like the F-35.

EDIT: As I was saying that, the new photo shared didn't make the cockpit look that large. Slightly larger than the mock-up still. TAI might be playing their secrecy game again. We will find out soon enough.

[...]

View attachment 687018
I eyeballed the dimensions relative to the J-20, so take this with a massive grain of salt. Personally, I think it might be a little smaller in terms of height and length, maybe a little closer to the Su-57. In terms of wingspan, it's likely closest to the F-22, probably a little bigger.

Stellar work. Got it confirmed to a friend over at TAI a month ago. The aircraft is indeed going to be 21 meters in length.


EDIT: Rest in peace to everyone who perished today. Shouldn't have happened...

 

[snne]

Approximate dimensions of the actual TF-X, derived from Canardzz' estimate and pics from Anatolian Eagle 2021.

[...]

This finally ends discussions regarding the actual length of the aircraft. Not 19 meters like the mock-up, but 21 meters. Just by looking at the photos above and some earlier (& not so well known) renders, we can see that the frontal fuselage is now starting to look a lot like the F-35.

EDIT: As I was saying that, the new photo shared didn't make the cockpit look that large. Slightly larger than the mock-up still. TAI might be playing their secrecy game again. We will find out soon enough.

[...]

View attachment 687018
I eyeballed the dimensions relative to the J-20, so take this with a massive grain of salt. Personally, I think it might be a little smaller in terms of height and length, maybe a little closer to the Su-57. In terms of wingspan, it's likely closest to the F-22, probably a little bigger.

In terms of size, F-15C is the most closest to it; or, if we're looking for a comparison from the current TurAF inventory, F-4E 2020's.

Basically it's a stealthy F-15EX which is more than enough for Turkey's needs.

It's design elements remind me of not only the American 5th gens but also the Su-57. The stabilizers are like that of the F-35, the overall fuselage shape is just like that of an F-22 with a slight LERX, and the weapon bays are like that of the Su-57 or the YF-23.

 

[PringleiPrick]

In terms of size, F-15C is the most closest to it; or, if we're looking for a comparison from the current TurAF inventory, F-4E 2020's.

Basically it's a stealthy F-15EX which is more than enough for Turkey's needs.

It's design elements remind me of not only the American 5th gens but also the Su-57. The stabilizers are like that of the F-35, the overall fuselage shape is just like that of an F-22 with a slight LERX, and the weapon bays are like that of the Su-57 or the YF-23.

Hmm, so this implies that the length is about 19m? It's good to keep everyone else guessing, I suppose.

I also saw some similarities to the Su-57. A disappointing one is the clear visibility of the nozzles from the side. Not great for IR.

A few other observations and questions:
- large distance between the two nozzles—reminiscent of the Tomcat. Maybe with some clever software we can do a bit of split throttle trickery for enhanced maneuverability.
- prominent S-duct (nice)
- can't tell if IRST is round (less stealthy, like in the promo renders) or faceted (like the EOTS, more stealthy)
- can't tell if nozzles are LO. Are we really going to use the same non-LO C/D nozzles that are on F-16s for GTU-0? GE was able to retrofit axisymmetric LO nozzles to the F110 back in the late 90s with the F-16 LO Axi Nozzle program. Fingers crossed we see something like this:


W.r.t. to calling the TF-X a stealthy F-15EX is selling it a bit short, in my opinion. I think you're right in terms of flight dynamics: similar thrust engines (Block 1), approx. same size, probably similar weight if we take into account TF-X' extensive use of composites. However, its tech will almost certainly exceed the F-15EX: built-in EOTS and IRST, DAS, larger GaN AESA, HMD only (no HUD, a la F-35)... At least, I hope it will.

 

[Canardzz]

In terms of size, F-15C is the most closest to it; or, if we're looking for a comparison from the current TurAF inventory, F-4E 2020's.

Basically it's a stealthy F-15EX which is more than enough for Turkey's needs.

It's design elements remind me of not only the American 5th gens but also the Su-57. The stabilizers are like that of the F-35, the overall fuselage shape is just like that of an F-22 with a slight LERX, and the weapon bays are like that of the Su-57 or the YF-23.

Hmm, so this implies that the length is about 19m? It's good to keep everyone else guessing, I suppose.

I also saw some similarities to the Su-57. A disappointing one is the clear visibility of the nozzles from the side. Not great for IR.

A few other observations and questions:
- large distance between the two nozzles—reminiscent of the Tomcat. Maybe with some clever software we can do a bit of split throttle trickery for enhanced maneuverability.
- prominent S-duct (nice)
- can't tell if IRST is round (less stealthy, like in the promo renders) or faceted (like the EOTS, more stealthy)
- can't tell if nozzles are LO. Are we really going to use the same non-LO C/D nozzles that are on F-16s for GTU-0? GE was able to retrofit axisymmetric LO nozzles to the F110 back in the late 90s with the F-16 LO Axi Nozzle program. Fingers crossed we see something like this:
View attachment 687162

W.r.t. to calling the TF-X a stealthy F-15EX is selling it a bit short, in my opinion. I think you're right in terms of flight dynamics: similar thrust engines (Block 1), approx. same size, probably similar weight if we take into account TF-X' extensive use of composites. However, its tech will almost certainly exceed the F-15EX: built-in EOTS and IRST, DAS, larger GaN AESA, HMD only (no HUD, a la F-35)... At least, I hope it will.

-The length is 21m.
-That design dates back to 2021 as you said. The IRST has since received stealth treatment. It's not round by any means.



-You're right about the no HUD thing.

 

[Combat-Master]

EHSIM RF decoy being developed for Turkey's F-16 and TFX
4:30 separation tests from F-16

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXbitju4IfE

Air To Air missiles being developed for F-16 and TFX, Göktuğ WVR and BVR missiles

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en-seoaKBQY