TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

Maro.Kyo said:
Canardzz said:
So it's safe to say the design has been complete for quite some time now. Dates back to Anatolian Eagle 2021.
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How is a design "complete" when CDR is planned for 2024? Even accounting to the alleged shortening of schedule by a year, the CDR cannot happen before 2023. Also the Turks are still negotiating a new contract with BAE for second stage development.

Also that computer graphics doesn't seem any different to the mock-up.
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It is different.


Screen Shot 2022-07-21 at 13.05.45.png

How does this look anything like the mock-up? It's different in almost every single way. The fuselage is extended, the vertical stabilizers are shorter, the cockpit looks strikingly similar to the F-35, the canopy design is different, the landing gear configuration is different, the internal weapons bay config is also different, vertical stabilizers are mounted on top of the engines, the rear end resembles the Su-57 now... Should I go on?


By "complete" I was referring to the flying and/ or ground test prototype. Y'know since it's being BUILT, quite literally, you would expect her design to be frozen. CDR=critical design review. There might still be design differences between the first prototypes, and the mass production variants. Design activities are still ongoing.
 
Canardzz said:
How does this look anything like the mock-up? It's different in almost every single way. The fuselage is extended, the vertical stabilizers are shorter, the cockpit looks strikingly similar to the F-35, the canopy design is different, the landing gear configuration is different, the internal weapons bay config is also different, vertical stabilizers are mounted on top of the engines, the rear end resembles the Su-57 now... Should I go on?


By "complete" I was referring to the flying and/ or ground test prototype. Y'know since it's being BUILT, quite literally, you would expect her design to be frozen. CDR=critical design review. There might still be design differences between the first prototypes, and the mass production variants. Design activities are still ongoing.
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Oh, you're right with the differences. I stand corrected. The rear fuselage looks like the biggest difference now indeed with the new tail design and vertical stabilizer.

Well if that's what you mean by complete, it doesn't mean much since the aircraft to roll out next year is most probably a ground test vehicle that could see some noticeable alteration becoming a flyable prototype. Hence a year of gap between the rollout and CDR and 2 years of gap between rollout and first flight.
 
Maro.Kyo said:
Canardzz said:
How does this look anything like the mock-up? It's different in almost every single way. The fuselage is extended, the vertical stabilizers are shorter, the cockpit looks strikingly similar to the F-35, the canopy design is different, the landing gear configuration is different, the internal weapons bay config is also different, vertical stabilizers are mounted on top of the engines, the rear end resembles the Su-57 now... Should I go on?


By "complete" I was referring to the flying and/ or ground test prototype. Y'know since it's being BUILT, quite literally, you would expect her design to be frozen. CDR=critical design review. There might still be design differences between the first prototypes, and the mass production variants. Design activities are still ongoing.
Click to expand...
Oh, you're right with the differences. I stand corrected. The rear fuselage looks like the biggest difference now indeed with the new tail design and vertical stabilizer.

Well if that's what you mean by complete, it doesn't mean much since the aircraft to roll out next year is most probably a ground test vehicle that could see some noticeable alteration becoming a flyable prototype. Hence a year of gap between the rollout and CDR and 2 years of gap between rollout and first flight.
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Very well could be the case. That's probably what they're planning on doing.
 
So Mete Yarar apparently visited TAI, spoke of the TF-X. Here are some of the things he said...

"TF-X's assembly has begun. They've already finished the construction of its large hangar. They've also begun constructing the aircraft's mass production facilities."
"Concerning the aircraft, the first thing that I will say is that it's massive. Comparing it to the F-16 won't be wise. The aircraft has its sections, and some of those sections are as big as the wing of an F-16. It's that big."

He also talks about Hurjet, Hurkus, Gokbey and the F-16 Ozgur (which is a more secretive program than the TF-X according to him).
 
Canardzz said:
So Mete Yarar apparently visited TAI, spoke of the TF-X. Here are some of the things he said...

"TF-X's assembly has begun. They've already finished the construction of its large hangar. They've also begun constructing the aircraft's mass production facilities."
"Concerning the aircraft, the first thing that I will say is that it's massive. Comparing it to the F-16 won't be wise. The aircraft has its sections, and some of those sections are as big as the wing of an F-16. It's that big."

He also talks about Hurjet, Hurkus, Gokbey and the F-16 Ozgur (which is a more secretive program than the TF-X according to him).
Click to expand...

F-16 Ozgur is being kept wrapped up for the most part in-case US decides that they aren't happy with some of the modifications to the aircraft. so it makes sense that it isn't as publicised - some of the engineers who were working on the project early on did pass away because of apparent suicides

here's a thread on the subject;
 
Attended Farnborough and saw mock up again (my pics)

Cheers
 

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Canardzz said:
CONFIRMATION

The TF-X is on the assembly line
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Mete Yarar Confirmed it like three weeks ago, he even mentioned that there were parts of the assembled TFX almost as large as an F-16. The thing is TUSAS does not allow cameras inside the TFX assembly facility so we won't see it being assembled. at least in the early stages..

Further more, Turkish Engine Industries and General Electric are trying to get F110-129 engine license produced in Turkey. The first blocks of the TFX produced will be powered by the F110 engine and likely number in the 30-40 airframes. Hence, there is a need of 60-80+ F110 engines, a fairly hefty number.

That should give Turkey some space to develop and integrate it's own engine, should there be delays in development.
 
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Combat-Master said:
Canardzz said:
CONFIRMATION

The TF-X is on the assembly line
Click to expand...

Mete Yarar Confirmed it like three weeks ago, he even mentioned that there were parts of the assembled TFX almost as large as an F-16. The thing is TUSAS does not allow cameras inside the TFX assembly facility so we won't see it being assembled. at least in the early stages..
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Yes but it is always good to confirm it yourself :D It's gonna be a nice looking aircraft.
 
Combat-Master said:
Mete Yarar Confirmed it like three weeks ago, he even mentioned that there were parts of the assembled TFX almost as large as an F-16. The thing is TUSAS does not allow cameras inside the TFX assembly facility so we won't see it being assembled. at least in the early stages..
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So we still can't get on the latest shape of TF-X? Can you confirm the shape of IRST will be the same as Farnborough cockpit model?
 
Alifzero said:
Combat-Master said:
Mete Yarar Confirmed it like three weeks ago, he even mentioned that there were parts of the assembled TFX almost as large as an F-16. The thing is TUSAS does not allow cameras inside the TFX assembly facility so we won't see it being assembled. at least in the early stages..
Click to expand...
So we still can't get on the latest shape of TF-X? Can you confirm the shape of IRST will be the same as Farnborough cockpit model?
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Yes
 
"We came together for lunch with the employees of the National Combat Aircraft (MMU) Integrated Processing Unit Project Gebze Campus.

We delivered the Integrated Processor Unit (IPU) and Avionic Interface Unit (DCU) prototypes to be used in the aircraft, which is planned to leave the hangar on March 18, 2023, to #tusaş on August 25.
Within the scope of the Integrated Processor Unit Project, where all hardware and software are developed locally and nationally;

There are many critical technologies such as the new multi-core version of the National Real Time Operating System, Deterministic Network Technology, Avionic Digital Video Bus, High Speed Multi-Core Processors."

1663626256630.png
 
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Combat-Master said:
"We came together for lunch with the employees of the National Combat Aircraft (MMU) Integrated Processing Unit Project Gebze Campus.

We delivered the Integrated Processor Unit (IPU) and Avionic Interface Unit (DCU) prototypes to be used in the aircraft, which is planned to leave the hangar on March 18, 2023, to #tusaş on August 25.
Within the scope of the Integrated Processor Unit Project, where all hardware and software are developed locally and nationally;

There are many critical technologies such as the new multi-core version of the National Real Time Operating System, Deterministic Network Technology, Avionic Digital Video Bus, High Speed Multi-Core Processors."
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Here's some available info on TF-X's RTOS and ICP for those who are curious.

When I first heard of the TF-X I had this fear that TAI had licensed VxWorks or some other RTOS from abroad, and would therefore be subject to export restrictions. Thankfully that's not the case, and TÜBİTAK has been working on a (seemingly) very capable RTOS called GzİS (lit. Real Time Operating System) since at least 2017 [1]. HAVELSAN is also known to be a part of this project since 2020 [2]. Below are its features and capabilities:

1663805430734.png

Note how RISC-V support was added in 2021, presumably for ÇAKIL and its multicore successors. TF-X's ICP will likely run on the RISC-V architecture, which would be a world first. Other instruction set architectures like ARM and PPC must be licensed, so they are a no-go if the Turkish defence industry is seeking complete independence in strategic areas. Interestingly, in the board support section, most of the prototyping boards use the PPC architecture (mostly from FreeScale, now part of NXP), but this portion may be out of date (or other boards are classified).

With respect to performance, while (a multicore) ÇAKIL is woefully outdated relative to contemporary commercial offerings, L3 Harris' ICP used in the current F-35 blocks is no spring chicken either (L3 is working on a replacement). Unfortunately, we can only hope to match its mid-2000s capabilities initially.

Addendum: I think that the core processors will be supplemented with FPGAs tailored for very specific applications, which will greatly accelerate "hot" code paths (e.g., sensor fusion). YONGATEK's recent statements on national FPGAs supports this theory.
 
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PringleiPrick said:
Combat-Master said:
"We came together for lunch with the employees of the National Combat Aircraft (MMU) Integrated Processing Unit Project Gebze Campus.

We delivered the Integrated Processor Unit (IPU) and Avionic Interface Unit (DCU) prototypes to be used in the aircraft, which is planned to leave the hangar on March 18, 2023, to #tusaş on August 25.
Within the scope of the Integrated Processor Unit Project, where all hardware and software are developed locally and nationally;

There are many critical technologies such as the new multi-core version of the National Real Time Operating System, Deterministic Network Technology, Avionic Digital Video Bus, High Speed Multi-Core Processors."
Click to expand...
Here's some available info on TF-X's RTOS and ICP for those who are curious.

When I first heard of the TF-X I had this fear that TAI had licensed VxWorks or some other RTOS from abroad, and would therefore be subject to export restrictions. Thankfully that's not the case, and TÜBİTAK has been working on a (seemingly) very capable RTOS called GzİS (lit. Real Time Operating System) since at least 2017 [1]. HAVELSAN is also known to be a part of this project since 2020 [2]. Below are its features and capabilities:

View attachment 684391

Note how RISC-V support was added in 2021, presumably for ÇAKIL and its multicore successors. TF-X's ICP will likely run on the RISC-V architecture, which would be a world first. Other instruction set architectures like ARM and PPC must be licensed, so they are a no-go if the Turkish defence industry is seeking complete independence in strategic areas. Interestingly, in the board support section, most of the prototyping boards use the PPC architecture (mostly from FreeScale, now part of NXP), but this portion may be out of date (or other boards are classified).

With respect to performance, while (a multicore) ÇAKIL is woefully outdated relative to contemporary commercial offerings, L3 Harris' ICP used in the current F-35 blocks is no spring chicken either (L3 is working on a replacement). Unfortunately, we can only hope to match its mid-2000s capabilities initially.

Addendum: I think that the core processors will be supplemented with FPGAs tailored for very specific applications, which will greatly accelerate "hot" code paths (e.g., sensor fusion). YONGATEK's recent statements on national FPGAs supports this theory.
Click to expand...

Further more on that subject;
Mr Ismail Demir: (Chip factory) "We have serious efforts to become a part of the company in Malaysia (Silterra) and then that will be transferred to Turkiye"

---
Turkey wants' to start producing chips nationally, there are efforts to setup a foundry that can produce 65nm chips reducing size with continued development
 
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Canardzz said:
Combat-Master said:
FighterJock said:
Canardzz said:
View attachment 685570
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Nice find Canardzz, I especially like the top photo showing the helmet mounted display in action. :cool:
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From Aselsan's 4th Quarter Magazine showing HMD proposed for TFX
View attachment 686123
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Anything else from that magazine?
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Nothing of intrigue pertaining to TFX

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Aselsan is developing TFX black box unit will meet EUROCAE ED-112A regulations
26509c31ef1fea8cec2cb49c8158964b.jpg
 
Alp Aviation National Programs Director Hüseyin Arıkan has revealed that they are currently producing landing gear subassemblies and detail components for the TF-X. They will start deliveries in November. CEO of TAI had already revealed that they were planning on integrating the landing gears to the TF-X in November. Coincidence? I think not.

alp_2_2.jpg
 
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from defencehub.live
-There is one aircraft being assembled. And that is the GTU-0. Like aforementioned, no RAM paint.
-Forward fuselage, mid fuselage, mid-aft fuselage (includes wing assemblies) are all completed. Aft fuselage is nearing completion.
-The canopy has been delivered.
-The forward fuselage will be transferred to the final assembly line in a VERY VERY VERY VERY short time. No pictures will be posted.
-Much of the crucial systems will be present during rollout. Certain systems such as the HMD, IRST, EOTS and other systems aren't expected to be there at first.
-TAI is using unorthodox techniques and technologies while assembling the aircraft. I'm not allowed to give insight on any of these.
-Even TAI technicians on sight were surprised to see how fast the program was moving forward. Assembly work is certainly moving at an incredibly fast pace.
-There are around 200 technicians on sight.
-The MMU hangar has transformed from an empty warehouse with a half-built FF, to a genuine assembly facility. This, I can proudly confirm.
-F-110's on sight. No delays expected for the rest of the deliveries.
-Certainly no delays to the program as things stand.
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Osman-Okyay.jpg

Kale Group Technical Head regarding the TF-X/MMU engines

"Project TF-X will be the second 5th generation fighter aircraft to be developed in the world (?). Therefore, it is a very important project for our country. I can't explain enough how important this is. Having such a difficult technology will take this country to a completely different place. We set out to make a fighter jet engine, with all the rights to the engine of the plane."

"Here, we use Rolls-Royce as a technology resource. We established a joint company in Turkey. We have a partner company with Rolls-Royce, mostly ourselves. With this company, we have a concept in which nearly 400 Turkish engineers will be employed and the design and development work will be done in Turkey, with all the rights to us. In this way, we aspire to build the second 5th generation fighter jet engine in the world. We are still in talks with the SSB on this issue. We submitted the final version of our proposal. We are currently waiting for a decision. This is the point we have come to."

"However, as I said, it is a very complex project, a very difficult project. If it were easy, it would have done a lot in the world. Therefore, if we can bring this level of technology to our country, it is certain that it will be a very important reason for me to be happy."
 

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