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Sukhoi Su-57 / T-50 / PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II

flateric

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Just found some disperancy in two linked posts. Though maybe misunderstood you or smthng.
Mea culpa. Careful reading Ashug R&D work docs and size of a transparency given as 1520*850 mm would give one a clue that only frameless canopy is being discussed, not windscreen.
My other wrong statement was a way that 'fast bays' doors do open.
I only have a subtle excuse for Su-50 designation as it really was mentioned in Sukhoi subcontractor annual report and later, Zvezda kit licensed by Sukhoi, was looking like confirmation.
Still, I can live with it.
 

GARGEAN

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Mea culpa. Careful reading Ashug R&D work docs and size of a transparency given as 1520*850 mm would give one a clue that only frameless canopy is being discussed, not windscreen.
My other wrong statement was a way that 'fast bays' doors do open.
I only have a subtle excuse for Su-50 designation as it really was mentioned in Sukhoi subcontractor annual report and later, Zvezda kit licensed by Sukhoi, was looking like confirmation.
Still, I can live with it.
No accusations) Capony indeed was moot point, though I missed some moment of discussing it between those two posts while reading old threads. As for Su-50 - buggers me even today when I see one on the sheft in store. Which is funny cuz it seems that Su-57 was known internally for quite a few years before official naming ceremony...
 

GARGEAN

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Also there are quite interesting talks about contract on 76 airframes. Just talks for now tho.
 

Grey Havoc

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Also there are quite interesting talks about contract on 76 airframes. Just talks for now tho.
Any idea which units would get re-equipped or stood back up if it turns out to be more than talk?
 

GARGEAN

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Also there are quite interesting talks about contract on 76 airframes. Just talks for now tho.
Any idea which units would get re-equipped or stood back up if it turns out to be more than talk?
It most probably won't be just talk, even if not in form currently sounded. As for where - it will be three regiments from that contract, but haven't heard about which are planned to receive it.
 

GARGEAN

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Also there are quite interesting talks about contract on 76 airframes. Just talks for now tho.
Any idea which units would get re-equipped or stood back up if it turns out to be more than talk?
Little update: some sources suggests that there will be three new regiments created to use T-50. They will have different structure, including special ground service crews aimed at sustaining LO capabilities of airframe.
 

flanker

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Note area above main wingspar (and the main headache of early T-50 frames) is metal still. It was originally composite on T-50-1, -2 and -3 and metal from -4 and onwards. -1 and -2 later got modified that area to metal in summer of 2015. Even all Phase 2 frames (with much improved frame strength) appear to have the are in metal. IE - seems nothing has changed in that area since T-50-4...
 

icyplanetnhc

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What's the main structural difference between Phase 1 and Phase 2 airframes? More metal to substitute for composites?

Also, it appears that there is still a mounting hole for a pitot tube above and behind the missile warning sensor near the canopy.
 

flanker

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What's the main structural difference between Phase 1 and Phase 2 airframes? More metal to substitute for composites?

Also, it appears that there is still a mounting hole for a pitot tube above and behind the missile warning sensor near the canopy.
From the general drips of information we have gotten, basically the whole frame had to be reworked under the skin. Then there is of course a bunch of other differences like stealth adjustments, longer stinger, composite engine covers, etc etc. If you havent seen it, might be of interest;

... So, back in 2010 it became clear that the aircraft was designed somewhat unsuccessfully. It could not withstand the required operational overloads, rivets were cut off at the air intakes, air-to-air heat exchangers cracked along the welds, and the fuel in tank No. 3 categorically refused to be spent completely. In order for the first car to safely reach the assigned resource at 300 hours, it was put up for revision in August 2011 (the rest was reinforced at the factory) and started designing the car of the 2nd stage (by the way, the wrench left there was removed from the keel 50-1 key). At the 2nd stage, the proportion of composites increased significantly (almost all the plating became from PCM), but the weight of the airframe, due to the gain of the SS, still increased excessively. Then they decided to replace in many units the dural B95 and AK-5 with an aluminum-lithium alloy 1461T with a specific weight of almost 20% less. In October 2012, the final decision was made on the launch of the 2nd stage in production. It was planned 2 cars - T-50-7 and T-50-8. At that time, there were 3 cars of the 1st stage at various stages of production - 4, 5, 6. But they realized in time, and decided to make 50-7 statics. And in February of the 13th they decided to make a transition model and assigned it the T-50-6 index. In order to avoid confusion, the T-50-6 of the first stage was called the T-50-6-1, and the car of the second stage was called the T-50-6-2.
But, among the imported components for the T-50 were American carbon fiber structures, widely used in the wing and tail. Our military leadership decided that this was unacceptable and decided to "import-substitute" and instructed the DGP "Technology" from Obninsk to develop domestic cellular materials. By the way, all other composites for T-50 are also made in Obninsk. It is expected, Obnitsy set all the deadlines. As a result, with grief Sagittarius (he is now PAK PAK, not Davidenko) in May, he even proposed to remove the plumage from the T-50-4 and put it on 6-2, having finished the fairings of drives and semi-axes, but a month ago the cellular fillers finally came.
Alloy 1461 turned out to be another problematic issue. It desperately cracked during machining; here it must also be said that the assembly is still being carried out according to the technologies of the 1970s, that is, the sledgehammer is still quite popular when assembling the components into an assembly. A similar treatment did not transfer the alloy at all. As a result, the reverse transformation of the material of the parts from 1461 to B-95, and sometimes again back to 1461, went. That, of course, led to the indescribable delight of all, especially the hard ones.
Thus, 2013, 2014 passed, and only in February 2015 the fuselage 6-2 was docked ...
Bad google translate, but should get the point across in general.
 

flateric

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and that's why "one person" went to jail, lol
 

flanker

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Bad google translate, but should get the point across in general.
This is a retelling of the unconfirmed and dubious words of one person by another, very biased person, provocateur besides.
1; This information was given to another person from a trustworthy source. I DGAF who posted the information really, the interesting part is where the information is originally from.

2; This source of the information worked at KnAAZ factory.

3; This source got caught, and sent to jail over this and other leaks.

So no, you can spin it any way you would like to do, but the information in it is solid. In fact, it is clearly you who is biased here. Fun fact; the one that posted the snippet above was claimed to be a Mossad agent. Which was a laughable lie in order to jail the said source. But hey, it worked i guess...
 

GARGEAN

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Fun fact; the one that posted the snippet above was claimed to be a Mossad agent. Which was a laughable lie in order to jail the said source. But hey, it worked i guess...
IIRC not Mossad agent per se but had some connetions with Mossad. Can't know for sure anyways.
 

icyplanetnhc

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Didn't the wingspan of the Stage 2 airframe also increase slightly? It increased from the original 13.95 m to 14.1 m, according to PiBu. Furthermore, PiBu once mentioned that the nacelle circumference changed, though looking through the pictures I'm not seeing any apparent differences.

What was the reason for the longer stinger?
 

GARGEAN

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So it seems contract for 76 airframes is set. Wonder for how long. Su-35 contracts were smaller, so that one is either set for longer time or they are planning to ramp airframe production up.
 
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