• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Sukhoi Su-57 / T-50 / PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II

Austin

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
194
Reaction score
1
Viktor Bondarev: no one could surpass the combat capabilities of the Su-57

https://aviation21.ru/viktor-bondarev-boevye-vozmozhnosti-su-57-poka-prevzojti-nikto-ne-smog/

Chairman of the Federation Council Committee on Defense and Security Viktor Bondarev in an interview with "News»I highly appreciated the technical, flight and combat characteristics of the Su-57 fighter.

According to him, the subtle, highly maneuverable, high-speed Russian fighter of the fifth generation, is able to escape from enemy attacks at supersonic speed without the use of a boost.“Not a single long-range radar detection aircraft is able to detect it, not a single anti-aircraft missile system to shoot down. At the same time, it can hit any targets both on the ground and in the air. On-board electronics helps the pilot to solve several tasks at the same time, to conduct an all-perspective battle with missiles of different range of destruction. The combat capabilities of this aircraft at this stage of industrial development could not be surpassed by anyone, ”said the chairman of the committee of the Federation Council.


He added that on board the Su-57 you can place the most modern precision weapons. Moreover, the current range of combat equipment is not finite. There are great opportunities for modernization, for development, Bondarev concluded.

As for the price, the senator admitted that, although it may be somewhat high, it fully justifies itself.

“We see the fate of countries that have saved on national defense and security. And even if some of them managed to preserve their sovereignty, like Syria, it is difficult to even imagine what fabulous money they have to spend now on rebuilding the country. Much larger than those that they
would have invested in equipping the army with better weapons, ”concluded the senator.
 

donnage99

"Robert Gates, is that you??" sublight
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
965
Reaction score
5
I think what's gonna keep Western planners up at night in the future will be less about the aircraft itself but the weapons it's able to carry and deploy
 

Sundog

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
2,638
Reaction score
50
donnage99 said:
I think what's gonna keep Western planners up at night in the future will be less about the aircraft itself but the weapons it's able to carry and deploy
I doubt any of that will keep Westeners up. Having a handful of semi-stealthy fighters could be a threat in a very limited area, but in terms of the overall force structure the only thing Russia has for the west to be concerned with are S-400's and nukes.
 

Avimimus

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
1,933
Reaction score
17
It isn't a perfect airplane - but its development potential is something to take seriously:
- The 700 kg internal launchers do allow carrying ~300 km range BVR missiles with larger seeker diameters... so it may not need to carry an AAM-L to take on an AWAC, JSTAR, or Tanker...
- The networked radars of the Su-50s should make it much easier to pick up faint returns from stealth aircraft (effectively using the flight of four as a single larger antenna).
 

GARGEAN

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
191
Reaction score
31
donnage99 said:
I think what's gonna keep Western planners up at night in the future will be less about the aircraft itself but the weapons it's able to carry and deploy
Not really, considering common belief in west that "but it's just barely stealthy!", "its avionics must be bad because they are russian" and "it was cancelled!".
 

coanda

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
100
Reaction score
11
I wonder where the plasma stealth technology that was demonstrated at the IQPC Stealth conference in 2003 has got to?

Anyone know what the electrical power output is?
 

stealthflanker

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
295
Reaction score
24
coanda said:
I wonder where the plasma stealth technology that was demonstrated at the IQPC Stealth conference in 2003 has got to?

Anyone know what the electrical power output is?
It would be big for sure, in order of thousands of watts. and there could be risk of radiation too. A more modest application would be "plasma antenna" But as we see Su-57 will use rather conventional AESA's.

The plasma stealth can go to unmanned applications like cruise missiles.
 

sferrin

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
12,340
Reaction score
433
The T-10 was nothing to write home about but then it became the Su-27. . .
 

GARGEAN

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
191
Reaction score
31
There won't be such drastic reshaping as with T-10>T-10S. And there is no need anyways, whatever some believers want to believe.
 

Austin

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
194
Reaction score
1
Interview with Yevgeny Marchukov, general designer of the Lyulka Design Bureau on Product 30 Engine

https://nplus1.ru/material/2019/03/06/engines
 

Austin

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
194
Reaction score
1
Austin said:
Interview with Yevgeny Marchukov, general designer of the Lyulka Design Bureau on Product 30 Engine

https://nplus1.ru/material/2019/03/06/engines
flateric , Does the interview say Id 30 will be a variable bypass ratio engine and will have Flat Nozzle ?
 

GARGEAN

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
191
Reaction score
31
It mentions both, but say that it's unknown if flat nozzle will be used on T-50.
 

galgot

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
562
Reaction score
254
Website
galgot.com
Are all the avionics components all Russian, I mean even such things as processors ?
Cause if they use foreign components, sanctions would come on the way I suppose.
Anyway, still one of the most aesthetically pleasing "new" jet around.
 

flateric

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
8,806
Reaction score
264
Austin said:
Austin said:
Interview with Yevgeny Marchukov, general designer of the Lyulka Design Bureau on Product 30 Engine

https://nplus1.ru/material/2019/03/06/engines

flateric , Does the interview say Id 30 will be a variable bypass ratio engine and will have Flat Nozzle ?
No. You'd only read text in quotes, not journo's guesses.
 

flateric

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
8,806
Reaction score
264
galgot said:
Are all the avionics components all Russian, I mean even such things as processors ?
CPUs are domestic.
 

GARGEAN

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
191
Reaction score
31
galgot said:
Are all the avionics components all Russian, I mean even such things as processors ?
Cause if they use foreign components, sanctions would come on the way I suppose.
Anyway, still one of the most aesthetically pleasing "new" jet around.
Yeap. This is one of main differences when compared to Su-30 and to lesser extend Su-35. OTOH onboard computers always were domestic.
 

Austin

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
194
Reaction score
1
Why assume that if there are non-Russian system it would be just western sourced and it cant be sourced from some where else like china taiwan etc or could just be some COTS stuff.

i have yet to come across any information that Russian aircraft comes with non-Russian system except may be export model like MKI MKM where such equipment are based on end user request.
 

galgot

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
562
Reaction score
254
Website
galgot.com
flateric said:
galgot said:
Are all the avionics components all Russian, I mean even such things as processors ?
CPUs are domestic.
Thks

Yeah , when I meant foreign was thinking western... indeed could get some components elsewhere.
 

GARGEAN

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
191
Reaction score
31
Austin said:
i have yet to come across any information that Russian aircraft comes with non-Russian system except may be export model like MKI MKM where such equipment are based on end user request.
Su-30 and Su-35 has quite a few componets of export origin, including wester (french).
 

flateric

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
8,806
Reaction score
264
Quite a few, yes. Just several hundred p/n ...
 

icyplanetnhc

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
101
Reaction score
7
Website
aiaa.seas.ucla.edu
I read through the article via Google translate, and it appears that Marchukov mentioned variable cycle technology but is he stating that it's being implemented for Product 30? This is the first time I've heard suggestions of variable cycle for this particular engine. Perhaps Russian speaking members can clarify?

Interestingly, it seems like he also considers 3-stream adaptive engines to be the next generation in fighter aircraft propulsion, like what GE and P&W are doing with the XA100 and XA101 and NGAD/PCA powerplants.
 

GARGEAN

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
191
Reaction score
31
Han, he's talking about future developments, not about Izd.30.
 

flateric

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
8,806
Reaction score
264
Steven said:
I read through the article via Google translate, and it appears that Marchukov mentioned variable cycle technology but is he stating that it's being implemented for Product 30?
once more, read only text inside quotes. he is talking of VC as a future development, not implemented in Izd.30
 

Austin

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
194
Reaction score
1
What new technology would Izd 30 have if not VC , Mearly increasing T:W ratio from 10 to 11 from 117 which has T/W ratio of more than 10 wont be any major improvement in terms of technology , They have reduced the number of stages , He says fuel consumption is the same.

117 can supercruise the T-50 , Izd would just make it SC a bit faster.

Let see from earlier interview and even this there was mention of VCE so I am hopeful Izd would have VCE
 

flateric

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
8,806
Reaction score
264
Again, you are mixing wishful thinking with reality. Marchukov says NOTHING about variable cycle on Izd.30 in his interview. He only mentions it as of future development for a next gen of engines.
You are remembering me guy from the other forum who thinks that every patent application made by PAK FA contractor means that it's already used on T-50.
 

Austin

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
194
Reaction score
1
What other engine is there under works to even talk about future VCE ?

Time will tell let’s see
 

bring_it_on

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
1,958
Reaction score
40
Why would the Russians not have plans for address future propulsion needs? Is the Izd 30 the end of the road for propulsion advances for their aerospace industry? I think not. There will always be future and forward looking technology development, sometimes directly to support a defined need, and other times open ended, to support technology advances because future programs will always need access to highly capable engines.
 

icyplanetnhc

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
101
Reaction score
7
Website
aiaa.seas.ucla.edu
Thrust figures aren’t the only signs of technological improvement. There are plenty of other metrics such as MTBO, SFC, TIT, OPR, etc. In any case, you shouldn’t expect a design freeze based on whatever latest technology is being talked about.

flateric said:
Steven said:
I read through the article via Google translate, and it appears that Marchukov mentioned variable cycle technology but is he stating that it's being implemented for Product 30?
once more, read only text inside quotes. he is talking of VC as a future development, not implemented in Izd.30
Thank you for the clarification.

Performance metrics about the Product 30 are difficult to come by for understandable reasons. The only numbers I’ve read is from PiBu’s article in Air International where he quoted a Saturn official (I believe Ilya Fedorov) saying that the engine will be 16-17% “more effective”, though what metric that refers to is unclear.
 

flateric

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
8,806
Reaction score
264
bring_it_on said:
Why would the Russians not have plans for address future propulsion needs? Is the Izd 30 the end of the road for propulsion advances for their aerospace industry? I think not.
Of course not. Saturn has many things in the works. They were showing several future engine concepts in presentation at last Aero-Engine Manufacturing Forum. One was looking pretty much like RR concept for Team Tempest with these bypass tubes. Don't forget of their RDE research. With a money they surely able to 'cut the corners', without them...
 

Austin

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
194
Reaction score
1
Su-57 fighter: TsAGI innovative solutions

http://www.tsagi.ru/pressroom/news/4264/



In early 2010, for the first time, a prototype of the T-50 aircraft took off. The Russian fifth-generation multifunctional fighter, developed by the P.O. Sukhoi in the framework of the project "PAK FA" (Perspective Aviation Complex of Frontal Aviation), now bears the name of Su-57.

In the Central Aero-Hydrodynamic Institute named after professor N.Е. Zhukovsky new aircraft began to be developed in the framework of research work in 1999. The specialists of the leading center of aviation science, together with the Sukhoi Design Bureau, were to create a fighter with a number of unique features that have properties whose implementation is mutually contradictory. It was necessary to develop an aviation complex with the functions of a fighter, interceptor and strike aircraft. High combat effectiveness of the PAK FA should be provided by technical solutions in the field of aerodynamic layout, stability and controllability, control systems, power plant, radar and infrared visibility, avionics and armament.

Together with the staff of the Sukhoi Design Bureau, the TsAGI scientists developed an aerodynamic shape of the aircraft that meets the requirements of the fifth generation fighter. An unobtrusive air intake, which has no world analogues, was created, which ensures stable engine operation in all flight modes. The specialists of the institute have worked out control systems for a maneuverable aircraft that is statically unstable in the lateral and longitudinal control channels. Ensuring the durability of the airframe design with the extensive use of new and composite materials is another challenging task that TsAGI scientists have successfully solved. As a result, the requirements were met for the weight parameters of the design of the aviation complex, the weight perfection of the aircraft. In a short time, work was carried out in the areas of security from flutter,

Specialists of the Institute conducted a unique design calculation of the layout of the fighter. In the wind tunnels of TsAGI, 28 different aircraft models were investigated; The total number of tests exceeded 32 thousand. Successfully performed tests of new materials and structural elements.


After the first flight of the prototype, studies on the finalization of the flight vehicle continued. So, over the next nine years, the TsAGI refined the aerodynamic characteristics of the complex, compared it with the results of flight tests, practiced the safety of using new aircraft weapons. In the process of preparing and conducting flight tests, frequency tests of all the aircraft designed for this purpose were conducted.


Press service of FSUE TsAGI
(495) 556-40-32
(495) 556-40-38
press@tsagi.ru
 

flateric

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
8,806
Reaction score
264
QuadroFX said:
Where is it from?
It's six years old. MAKS-2013
http://www.tsagi.ru/pressroom/archive/2013/761/
http://www.tsagi.ru/pressroom/expert/811/
 

Deltafan

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
827
Reaction score
73
Russia Reveals Export Version of Su-57 Stealth Fighter jet, to Target Middle East :

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/24540/Russia_Reveals_Export_Version_of_Su_57_Stealth_Fighter_jet__to_Target_Middle_East#.XJ1kH_ZFx9A
 

GARGEAN

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
191
Reaction score
31
Strange why Middle East mentioned, cuz two current proposed buyers are India and Malaysia.
 

GARGEAN

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
191
Reaction score
31

Comrade?
 

_Del_

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
371
Reaction score
8
You think it's shocking that things may have changed in between the four years between posts?
 
Top