Sukhoi Su-57 / T-50 / PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II [2012-current]

paralay said:
:cool:
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I looks like the SU-57 uses the same hydraulic FBW actuators as the Russian UCAV. EHAs are electric power hogs and are not efficient (electric motors are very inefficient trying to hold a static load and you have accelerate and decelerate the motor which drives the pump) at holding and maintaining a static flight surface hinge moment and are very heavy but the tradeoff is eliminating the hydraulic plumbing.

A standard FBW actuator using either 3000, 4000 or 5000 psig constant hydro pressure, is much more efficient in holding hinge moments and have better response but you have distributed plumbing runs. However, titanium tubing, light weight fittings and proper plumbing installations work well. F-35 tactical pitch maneuver as an example, heavy electrical power loads/consumption.
 
I'm not well versed in all things mechanical, but I thought holding static loads with zero power is not that hard?
You could add a worm gear to prevent power from flowing back to the motor mechanically, or add a valve between the master and slave hydraulic cylinders to make them hold a static load?
 
Elysium said:
I'm not well versed in all things mechanical, but I thought holding static loads with zero power is not that hard?
You could add a worm gear to prevent power from flowing back to the motor mechanically, or add a valve between the master and slave hydraulic cylinders to make them hold a static load?
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Primary flight surfaces are always active, you never want to add type of device (mechanical or a hydraulic fluid lock) or feature to lock them into any position, has to with maintaining redundancy (if you lose a channel or system), normally these are active-active type systems. The exception is secondary flight controls (leading/trailing edge flaps, slats, horizontal stabilizers for pitch trim, etc) which can and do lock in their commanded positions.
 
How many Su-57 will be delivered in 2024?

With new engines, looks like Mach 1.8+ to Mach 2 supercruise?
 
Production plan

2019 - 1 pc.
2020 - 1 pc .
2021 - 4 pcs .
2022 - 4 pcs .
2023 - 7 pcs .
2024 - 12 pcs .
2025 - 16 pcs. (?)
2026 - 16 pcs. (?)
2027 - 16 pcs. (?)

Total: 77 pcs.
 
paralay said:
Production plan

2019 - 1 pc.
2020 - 1 pc .
2021 - 4 pcs .
2022 - 4 pcs .
2023 - 7 pcs .
2024 - 12 pcs .
2025 - 16 pcs. (?)
2026 - 16 pcs. (?)
2027 - 16 pcs. (?)

Total: 77 pcs.
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Future order after those ? I feel Russia can use some 200+ tbh. Unless somehow Checkmate got into mass production.
 
bulgarianmilitary.com

Su-57's new AL-51F1 engine (2024) allows it to cruise at Mach 2

In 2024, Rostec's UAC is set to commence deliveries of the upgraded Su-57, now equipped with the cutting-edge AL-51F1 engine, formerly known as "Izdelie 30".
bulgarianmilitary.com bulgarianmilitary.com

Rostec reports that the formidable AL-51F1 engine has passed all tests with flying colors, exceeding every expectation. The new engine delivers a robust thrust of 11,000 kg and an afterburner capable of 18,000 kg. Due to this upgrade, the Su-57 can now reach a cruising speed of Mach 2, while remarkably reducing its visibility within the infrared range — a decisive advancement over its predecessor.
 

More Cutting-Edge Su-57 Jets Enter Russia's Military Service

The state-of-the-art Su-57 fighter jet’s stealth characteristics are successfully used in the Russian special military operation zone in Ukraine.
sputnikglobe.com sputnikglobe.com

Official numbers from Sputnik:

The Su-57 multirole fighter, which was developed by the Sukhoi company, is designed to destroy all types of air, ground and surface targets. The aircraft has a supersonic cruising speed of 2,400 km per hour, intra-fuselage weapons, radio-absorbing coating and the latest set of on-board equipment.
 
Your own Sputnik source (a well known propaganda outlet) even said that the information is obtained from "Public Data"; in other words, not official by any means and isn't evidence of anything.

Back to some actual information.

Model Reveals New Russian Air-To-Air Missile For The Sukhoi Su-57 | Aviation Week Network

A gift model offers a sneak peek at Russia’s latest air-to-air weapon.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com

The izdeliye 810 missile model was reviewed several weeks ago, essentially an updated R-37M (izdeliye 610M) for compressed carriage inside the weapon bays, with narrower strakes and folding tailfins.
 
icyplanetnhc (Steve) said:
Your own Sputnik source (a well known propaganda outlet) even said that the information is obtained from "Public Data"; in other words, not official by any means and isn't evidence of anything.

Back to some actual information.

Model Reveals New Russian Air-To-Air Missile For The Sukhoi Su-57 | Aviation Week Network

A gift model offers a sneak peek at Russia’s latest air-to-air weapon.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com

The izdeliye 810 missile model was reviewed several weeks ago, essentially an updated R-37M (izdeliye 610M) for compressed carriage inside the weapon bays, with narrower strakes and folding tailfins.
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Your the one who kept peddling the debunked claim that the Su-57 is limited to Mach 2? And then the official TTZ poster proved you wrong. What's your credibility?
 
It would be logical that izd810, besides the outward changes, also got internal changes. Like upgraded seeker and electronics. Possibly leaving room for different rocket motor. (Thst new aerodynamic surface configuration could then have been made to also compensate for weight distribution changes.)
 
EricChase88 said:

More Cutting-Edge Su-57 Jets Enter Russia's Military Service

The state-of-the-art Su-57 fighter jet’s stealth characteristics are successfully used in the Russian special military operation zone in Ukraine.
sputnikglobe.com sputnikglobe.com

Official numbers from Sputnik:

The Su-57 multirole fighter, which was developed by the Sukhoi company, is designed to destroy all types of air, ground and surface targets. The aircraft has a supersonic cruising speed of 2,400 km per hour, intra-fuselage weapons, radio-absorbing coating and the latest set of on-board equipment.
Click to expand...
You should realise that

1) Sputnik has not (and can not) publish accurate specs on Su-57 because
2) They probably don't have access to the data
3) If they do have access to the data, it is classified
4) To avoid being prosecuted for distributing classified data, they specifically label the drawings as based on public data
 
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Nice to see Sputnik channelling Top Trumps levels of aircraft comparison, takes me back to being a kid in the '70s.

Mind you, I'm not sure 'Our new plane is better than your 30 year old one' is that great a claim.
 
EricChase88 said:
bulgarianmilitary.com

Su-57's new AL-51F1 engine (2024) allows it to cruise at Mach 2

In 2024, Rostec's UAC is set to commence deliveries of the upgraded Su-57, now equipped with the cutting-edge AL-51F1 engine, formerly known as "Izdelie 30".
bulgarianmilitary.com bulgarianmilitary.com

Rostec reports that the formidable AL-51F1 engine has passed all tests with flying colors, exceeding every expectation. The new engine delivers a robust thrust of 11,000 kg and an afterburner capable of 18,000 kg. Due to this upgrade, the Su-57 can now reach a cruising speed of Mach 2, while remarkably reducing its visibility within the infrared range — a decisive advancement over its predecessor.
Click to expand...
Supercruise at m2.0, gotta demo it, I'm skeptical. Russian engines known for being gas guzzlers even in mil power.
 
11K Mil, 18K AB - that is a big augmentation ratio, suggestive of a higher bypass ratio, perhaps 0.7. This is not suggestive of a good supercruise engine, and the cross sections shown in previous presentations also seem to indicate a Fan Pressure Ratio insufficient for high supercruise
 
Beware of the site it is national interest tier. Also I think Russian engineers working on these projects know exactly what they need for supercruise. Let's see if they can succeed in their aims. I think they certainly can. I'm surprised F119doctor has the skills to know what hundreds of engineers at Saturn dont know.

Edit: We essentially call the shots entirely in Ukraine. We seem particularly fixated on optics as well and would want Russia to lose face so even fairly trusted sources I do not trust much anymore. I swear this war has made some people go nuts. What are the rinky dink sources of this youtube pundit? Is this place now a nafo safe space?
 
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EricChase88 said:
bulgarianmilitary.com

Su-57's new AL-51F1 engine (2024) allows it to cruise at Mach 2

In 2024, Rostec's UAC is set to commence deliveries of the upgraded Su-57, now equipped with the cutting-edge AL-51F1 engine, formerly known as "Izdelie 30".
bulgarianmilitary.com bulgarianmilitary.com

Rostec reports that the formidable AL-51F1 engine has passed all tests with flying colors, exceeding every expectation. The new engine delivers a robust thrust of 11,000 kg and an afterburner capable of 18,000 kg. Due to this upgrade, the Su-57 can now reach a cruising speed of Mach 2, while remarkably reducing its visibility within the infrared range — a decisive advancement over its predecessor.
Click to expand...


Yes for sure, BulgarianBS again and depending what they smoked the capabilities are even higher, the engines is even more powerful! ;)

This image alone says almost everything since this is not not even the emntioned AL-51F

1709570036677.png
 
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flateric said:
someone should tell an "expert" that 6 years old photos from Moscow major visit to Salyut has nothing to do with Saturn Izd 30
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I perhaps may have missed a post explaining it, but is there information as to what is this mystery engine anyway? Like what is it called, thrust level, is it a demonstrator and if so for what purpose/program, is it for export to China etc.?
 
TMA1 said:
Beware of the site it is national interest tier. Also I think Russian engineers working on these projects know exactly what they need for supercruise. Let's see if they can succeed in their aims. I think they certainly can. I'm surprised F119doctor has the skills to know what hundreds of engineers at Saturn dont know.
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Yes, dubious site, doubt we have real figures for Izdeliyie 30.

However F119Doctor has a fair claim to knowing what he is talking about with respect to engines based on his employment history.
 
Scar said:
OMFG Who is the author of this BS?

UPD: Ah, i see. For your own good, do not read or quote BulgarianMilitary, guys. It is the same level trashcan as Military Watch Magazine.
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I hope @EricChase88 got the message!
 
TomcatViP said:
Nothing new here. This video was posted long time ago here and already commented.
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As Flateric wrote somewhere here, advanced aerodynamic solutions are one of the elements of sixth generation. This is only for the context of the debate, whether "the Su-57 is really a fifth-generation fighter".
 
I thought the way LEVCONs worked is that on delta wings, the lift is generated by the vortices above the wings, which are generated by the root extensions. The intensity of the vortices is determined mostly by the AOA of the root extensions, therefore by making them movable, you can change the amount of lift your wing generates without changing the AOA.
This is super useful for things like low speed flights, and STO. Additionalyl by varying the lift on the 2 wings, you can have a better roll performance, and by increasing the lift unrelated to the AOA, it will give you some pitch authority, as well as excellent pitch control (since the CoL is at a lever arm from the CoM)
 
F119Doctor said:
11K Mil, 18K AB - that is a big augmentation ratio, suggestive of a higher bypass ratio, perhaps 0.7. This is not suggestive of a good supercruise engine, and the cross sections shown in previous presentations also seem to indicate a Fan Pressure Ratio insufficient for high supercruise
Click to expand...
Maybe that is the key to the apparent paradox about the Izd. 30, i.e., combining SFC in the class of the AL-31 and the claimed highest specific thrust (on par with F119 from what was released). An engine with highly increased absolute thrust that would still keep a relatively high bypass character. But that would mean a specially high temperature tolerance and the ability to spin very fast even at high airspeed. That, or the diagrams we have seen are just "indicative" and pressure ratios derived from them are misleading... I tend to think it is the first option, so as not to compromise other flight regimes and allow the use of the engine by other planes (LTS or even Flankers), not specifically designed to supercruise.
 

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