Sukhoi Su-57 / T-50 / PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II [2012-current]

Deino

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Is there a certain system behind these numbers? I don't get the numbering system!??? :rolleyes:

Now we have 01 blue, 02 red, 52 blue and also a 52 red?? :oops:o_O

And someone says, the Chinese serial systems is weird?!
 
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QuadroFX

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Is there a certain system behind these numbers? I don't get the numbering system!??? :rolleyes:

Now we have 01 blue, 02 red, 52 blue and also a 52 red?? :oops:o_O

And someone says, the Chinese serial systems is weird?!
And, probably, #51(red or blue), which photos not released yet.
 

Alifzero

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Is there a certain system behind these numbers? I don't get the numbering system!??? :rolleyes:

Now we have 01 blue, 02 red, 52 blue and also a 52 red?? :oops:o_O

And someone says, the Chinese serial systems is weird?!
Could be repainted from blue 52 to red 52. And no info on new delivery to suggest that these two are not what they mentioned in January. Still, i don't understand why blue 01 and red 02 for GLITS and not blue 01 and blue 02.
 

flanker

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Is there a certain system behind these numbers? I don't get the numbering system!??? :rolleyes:

Now we have 01 blue, 02 red, 52 blue and also a 52 red?? :oops:o_O

And someone says, the Chinese
01 and 02 are going to GLITz, not sure why the are not the same color. 52 red going to Lipetsk.
Is there a certain system behind these numbers? I don't get the numbering system!??? :rolleyes:

Now we have 01 blue, 02 red, 52 blue and also a 52 red?? :oops:o_O

And someone says, the Chinese serial systems is weird?!
And, probably, #51(red or blue), which photos not released yet.
We shall see. I have a feeling red 52 and blue 52 are same frame, but no idea and might be completely wrong.
Have the dorsal contours changed a bit? Or is it just me?
Just you.
 

TMA1

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They are doing an incredible job with the production quality from everything I am seeing, though as usual they are going their own unique way. French are kinda like that too. I cannot wait to see those beauties with the izd 30 engines. I remember hearing that some testing with both engines might begin this year? Or is it distinctly only going to start full tests in 2024?
 

flanker

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They are doing an incredible job with the production quality from everything I am seeing, though as usual they are going their own unique way. French are kinda like that too. I cannot wait to see those beauties with the izd 30 engines. I remember hearing that some testing with both engines might begin this year? Or is it distinctly only going to start full tests in 2024?
I have read "rumors" about T-50-2 getting fitted with two Izd.30 engines for ages now. Tbh, Izd.30 has been slow as sh!t development wise.
 

TMA1

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They are doing an incredible job with the production quality from everything I am seeing, though as usual they are going their own unique way. French are kinda like that too. I cannot wait to see those beauties with the izd 30 engines. I remember hearing that some testing with both engines might begin this year? Or is it distinctly only going to start full tests in 2024?
I have read "rumors" about T-50-2 getting fitted with two Izd.30 engines for ages now. Tbh, Izd.30 has been slow as sh!t development wise.

From everything I have read, the temperatures and pressures to less parts and better efficiency this sounds like a huge leap for the ruskies. They are already planning on using the izd30 core for future engines (like a three stream variant potentially for the mig41) and they have essentially given the timeline for 2024 when pre production engines will be installed for final testing. I can see why it has taken so long. After reading about fighters for so long it really does show that the engines are essentially as complex to develop as the whole fighter itself.
 

LMFS

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From everything I have read, the temperatures and pressures to less parts and better efficiency this sounds like a huge leap for the ruskies. They are already planning on using the izd30 core for future engines (like a three stream variant potentially for the mig41) and they have essentially given the timeline for 2024 when pre production engines will be installed for final testing. I can see why it has taken so long. After reading about fighters for so long it really does show that the engines are essentially as complex to develop as the whole fighter itself.
Yeah, the AL-31F family has been in active use and development since 1985 until literally today and even further (still apparently seeing development of a 16 tf version of AL-41F-1 for LTS). That is more than 40 years, until a substitute in the form of izd. 30 with new layout and design philosophy appears in the series after 2025. UEC openly talks about it as the new platform on which they will develop their engines for the next 40-50 years. Small correction though, as per the roadmap proposed by UEC, the PAK-DP should use the current core of the izd. 30, while the 6th gen plane would use a three streams engine currently under development but based on a further evolution of the technologies learnt from the izd. 30.
 

lancer21

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Is it me or didn't someone just posted today pictures of the AL-41F izdeliye 20 engine? Perhaps if it was removed it should have been moved to an appropriate topic so it doesn't get lost, i wanted to save that picture.

Btw there are some more recent pictures of 02 and 52 red on mycitymilitary (scroll to last post on page)
 
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overscan (PaulMM)

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Scar

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Is there a thread where i can read about this Variable Cycle Engine prototype? Thx in advance for the link.
 

torginus

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Is there a certain system behind these numbers? I don't get the numbering system!??? :rolleyes:

Now we have 01 blue, 02 red, 52 blue and also a 52 red?? :oops:o_O

And someone says, the Chinese serial systems is weird?!
I wouldn't be surprised if they were completely random. A fun mathy anecdote - in WW2, the Allies tried badly to figure out how many tanks the Germans produced. Thankfully, the ever pedantic Germans assigned sequential serial numbers to their tanks. This allowed Allied statisticians, by observing the number of distinct serial numbers encountered, as well as the maximum serial number, to estimate the number of tanks built.

One simple way to check the probability of N tanks being built, given that they've encountered K tanks, with the max number being M, is the number of ways one can pick K-1 tanks from M-1 numbers (since the maximum M is known) divided by number of ways of picking K tanks from the hypothetical maximum, N.

Here's a more detailed writeup on the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem

So I wouldn't be surprised if random serial numbers were the standard for military equipment.
 

haavarla

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Is there a certain system behind these numbers? I don't get the numbering system!??? :rolleyes:

Now we have 01 blue, 02 red, 52 blue and also a 52 red?? :oops:o_O

And someone says, the Chinese serial systems is weird?!
I wouldn't be surprised if they were completely random. A fun mathy anecdote - in WW2, the Allies tried badly to figure out how many tanks the Germans produced. Thankfully, the ever pedantic Germans assigned sequential serial numbers to their tanks. This allowed Allied statisticians, by observing the number of distinct serial numbers encountered, as well as the maximum serial number, to estimate the number of tanks built.

One simple way to check the probability of N tanks being built, given that they've encountered K tanks, with the max number being M, is the number of ways one can pick K-1 tanks from M-1 numbers (since the maximum M is known) divided by number of ways of picking K tanks from the hypothetical maximum, N.

Here's a more detailed writeup on the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem

So I wouldn't be surprised if random serial numbers were the standard for military equipment.
Yeah but not really.
We seen the odd Bort side numbers being in red and blue(or whatever). Those could be the same numbers tho, hense the Color difference. Its farly rare tho, that that is the case, at the same time.
But if we see some airframes start at say Bort 51 Blue.
Then it means that Air Regiment got their first new bird of the allocated lot, and more will follow.

And ofc Another Air Regiment cold get the Bort 51 Red.

IMO Both in the same air Regiment(same Regiment but different Squadrons).. i highly doubt that is the case.

That they both are spotted over at Aktubinsk(for Airforce tactical purpose) or outside Moscow for further flight testing, is merely a temporary status.
 
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TR1

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Nice. Wonder if it means another 4 this year, or possibly more.
 

torginus

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Nice. Wonder if it means another 4 this year, or possibly more.
I wonder why is there such a hurry to make that many aircraft - the projected upgrade, nicknamed project Megapolis, is slated for 2025, and will introduce the new engine among other things. I can't shake the feeling that it's a substantial and deep upgrade and there's no economical upgrade path for the current production units, much like the early block F-35s.
 
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Ainen

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Nice. Wonder if it means another 4 this year, or possibly more.
I wonder why is there such a hurry to make that many aircraft - the projected upgrade, nicknamed project Megapolis, is slated for 2025, and will introduce the new engine, among other things. I can't shake the feeling that it's a substantial and deep upgrade and there's no economical upgrade path for the current production units, much like the early block F-35s.
Well, we live now, not in that bright future several years away. ;)
 

icyplanetnhc (Steve)

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Nice. Wonder if it means another 4 this year, or possibly more.
I wonder why is there such a hurry to make that many aircraft - the projected upgrade, nicknamed project Megapolis, is slated for 2025, and will introduce the new engine, among other things. I can't shake the feeling that it's a substantial and deep upgrade and there's no economical upgrade path for the current production units, much like the early block F-35s.
Perhaps from the perspective of the Russian Air Force, producing the Su-57 now would allow them to have the aircraft on hand to develop TTPs and integration into the force structure. Having a good enough product now may be preferable to waiting years for an improved Su-57M variant whose timeline might be subject to delays.
 
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LMFS

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I wonder why is there such a hurry to make that many aircraft - the projected upgrade, nicknamed project Megapolis, is slated for 2025, and will introduce the new engine, among other things. I can't shake the feeling that it's a substantial and deep upgrade and there's no economical upgrade path for the current production units, much like the early block F-35s.
They are indeed not hurrying up and setting up the production, developing tactics and training crews and a fairly slow pace, or at least not with huge human and economic resources that they cannot sustain in later phases of the program. I think the Megapolis project was among the topics that were being assessed in the background when we heard about that apparent slowing down of the project few years ago. New technical possibilities became available and the PAK-FA program itself was taking a bit more than initially planed, so it was reasonable to delay a bit the procurement and raise the technical bar from the bare minimum to a more mature standard, placing more units of the contracted batch in the second stage. In any case it would be uncharacteristic of them to produce units that cannot be retrofit at a later stage, and it was not needed to rush orders of the Su-57 either from a political or a military point of view, since the Su-35S was in active procurement and the government had clearly signalled their negotiating position by claiming that they could do without the PAK-FA.
 

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Anduriel

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Yeah, not a Su-57. Wings here has much bigger span vs stabilizer, unlike Su-57.
Doesn't mean that Su-57 has no participation, though.
 

stealthflanker

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I'm kinda worried on Su-57 production now... If KNAAZ can actually deliver on schedule and at required number.
 

Cannonfodder43

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They are more or less self-sufficient with everything except chips but without good chips...

I wonder how much they have in stock for production and spares?
 

stealthflanker

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except chips but without good chips...

well then the Su-57 avionics will be bit heavier and more power hungry for same performance as western one. Tho i believe The Su-57 generators and cooling would be sufficient.

------

things like AESA radars are seems to be fine.. JSC Giredmet is apparently the main Russian foundry for Gallium Arsenide and seems to be operating well. but i wonder if there is any western components in the module. The prototype of Zhuk-AE use US Altera ELPD for its logic control. If they can't substitute that then it will be a problem as each module requires one.
 
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Forest Green

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The aircraft on the video appears to be the Su-57.
What is the point in having a stealth aircraft and flying it well inside optical range of the ground where even defunct-AAA systems can pick it off?
 

alberchico

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I'm kinda worried on Su-57 production now... If KNAAZ can actually deliver on schedule and at required number.
I think this debacle showed Russia how valuable a stealth platform like the Su-57 would have been. If anything, it's going to push them to commit even more resources to the program. Don't be surprised if we see an order for more airframes soon. It also might push Russia into ordering the Su-75 with the hopes of attracting foreign customers. We should be thankful Russia dosen't yet have a large fleet of combat ready Su-57s, or this conflict could have gone much differently for them.
 

Rhinocrates

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The aircraft on the video appears to be the Su-57.
What is the point in having a stealth aircraft and flying it well inside optical range of the ground where even defunct-AAA systems can pick it off?
Allegedly, along with all their other logistical problems, they're short of precision-guided munitions that can be dropped from altitude and are mostly using dumb bombs.
 
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