Sukhoi Su-57 flight testing and development

[stealthflanker]

The screenshot shows an AEW processor requirement of 20 MIPS range.

Intel Core i7 920 (4-core) 82,300 MIPS

I don't see it being a relevant parameter since 1980s.

It allows some estimates to be made. Qualitative assessement unfortunately often not say much about the scope of the problem.
Maybe i should use one in "Introduction to RF stealth" but that one is for ESM.

 

[LMFS]

With all this discussion of what is or is not considered an operational aircraft I'm wondering about avionics. What will all the claims of AESA GaN based radars, jammers, passive MAWS, and electronic fusion wizardry all linked together by state-of-the-art AI accented programming. They seem to be claiming to be able to do what took the Americans decades, is still in process, and the Europeans might have with the new UK Eurofighters in 2025 and the French with Rafale F4.2. All three western producers have worked on far more advanced integrated electronic warfare/sensor suites than what the Russian have fielded, ever. As have the South Koreans and Japanese for that matter.

If you come from the background that Russian technology is based on vacuum tubes and rudimentary production, only improved by the access to Western digital HW, these concerns are logical. If you realize Sukhoi is currently as much a SW company as an aircraft design bureau, that Russians have outstanding STEM guys that win almost on a yearly basis the international algorithmics contests and that Su-35 has already a very advanced avionics with IA , sensor fusion, advanced diagnostics, tactical support and what not, well you should at least have a reasonable doubt that they may actually know what they do. They have also been working for many decades on such topics and actually pioneered the networked battle management long time ago.

Engines, material science, design, and even production. Russia can certainly do all of that. To me, all these discussions on what is or is not a s curved intake isn't as interesting as does the first flying AESA Russian radar work? Does it overheat? What's the level or production error? Or god help them issues with programming and software? Can it also work in electronic attack?

These are the pertinent concerns from my end even if the T/W and engine questions are fun.

They can indeed use the radar for EW. The problem with assessing the performance of the systems you mention is that they are both extremely complex (their performance is not easy to describe, even if we knew it, and depends on dozens of parameters and scenarios) and also completely classified, not only in Russia but also in the West, what makes establishing comparisons essentially impossible. If you figure a way to get some actual metrics then you are more than welcome to share them with us!

 

[TMA1]

I think underestimating the EW, comms, and radar capabilities of the su-35 might be naive. The su-35 was itself a testbed for further fifth gen development. Russians are smart and have been doing the same with the tu-160 for the pak-da and other examples as well. I think they are even doing these serious upgrades for the mig-31 in order to get a better handle for the far future mig-41 development.

 

[GARGEAN]

first flying AESA Russian radar

You are a little bit behind the curve. Tu-214R, Ka-27M and few other applications might disagree with this one.

As for computing power - Su-57 has 288 times more raw computing power for main bus compared to F-22. See a problem here.

 

[Trident]

Not to mention various terrestrial BMD radars which have been functioning on the AESA principle for decades. As Paul says, it's the microelectronics manufacturing required for X-band MMICs which is the long pole in the tent for the Russians, it's not as though the fundamentals of AESA radars are completely alien to them.

 

[Anduriel]

About GaN:

Развитие программы ПАК ФА

Последние месяцы были отмечены существенным прогрессом в продвижении программы российского истребителя пятого поколения ПАК ФА (Перспективный авиационный комплекс фронтовой авиации). 27 октября 2013 года в Комсомольске-на-Амуре совершил первый полет пятый летный опытный образец ПАК ФА …

bmpd.livejournal.com

Наибольший прогресс в развитии РЛК Ш-121 связан с доведением до состояния массового производства основного элемента РЛС с АФАР – приемо-передающих модулей. Производство таких модулей – широкополосных усилителей СВЧ для ППР, представляющих собой монолитную интегральную схему типа GaN – налажено на ФГУП "Научно-промышленное предприятие "Исток" (Фрязино, Московская область), входящем в состава холдинга "Росэлектроника".

The greatest progress in the development of the Sh-121 radar is associated with bringing to the state of mass production the main element of the radar with AESA - transceiver modules. The production of such modules - broadband microwave amplifiers for SPR, which are a monolithic integrated circuit of the GaN type - has been established at the Federal State Unitary Enterprise Scientific and Industrial Enterprise Istok (Fryazino, Moscow Region), which is part of the Ruselectronics holding.

So N036 may ideed have GaN TR modules.
Article itself from 2013.

 

[GARGEAN]

It may. But 99% it does not.

 

[Scar]

So N036 may ideed have GaN TR modules.
Article itself from 2013.

IIRC, Istok producing GaN-transistors for 1-4GHz, not for X-band.

 

[stealthflanker]

would be interesting to try to guess what kind of performance N036 would be with GaN module Or maybe what kind of module. From what i see so far, the peak power of the TRM would be dictated by the lowest duty cycle and of course the potential of cooling capacity, Thus operating modes the radar would operate.

Assuming 10% Duty cycle (correspond to maybe 4 KHz of PRF and 25 microseconds of pulsewidth) The module would be required to emit 54 Watt of power but with such duty cycle the average power is only about 5.4 Watt. Which is the limit of potential cooling capacity (assumed to be 22 KW/sqm, based on 9000 Kg fuel load estimate).

 

[Ejajjs]

blue 52,one of the four new aircrafts in the 2021 batch

 

[Alifzero]

They jump from 01 straight to 52? Or is there somekind of rule on numbering?

 

[GARGEAN]

Those bastards are hiding them from us!

 

[Alifzero]

Only 2 Su-57 delivered apparently. Which is weird because in some article/video they say already complete any 2021 obligation. So idk if it part of "supposed" 4 2021 batch or "separate" batch.

Два комплекта ЗРС С-400 и С-350 передали в войска в четвертом квартале 2021 года

Заместитель министра обороны РФ Алексей Криворучко сообщил, что промышленность также передала ВКС 17 новых - включая два истребителя Су-57 - и 18 отремонтированных самолетов

tass.ru

 

[QuadroFX]

Only 2 Su-57 delivered apparently. Which is weird because in some article/video they say already complete any 2021 obligation. So idk if it part of "supposed" 4 2021 batch or "separate" batch.

If you look closely to this screenshot, you can notice that two of four aircrafts are at a higher level of readiness.

 

[Evgeniy]

Only 2 Su-57

And there should have been 2 in 2021. Actually, that's what they said before. Borisov apparently misspoke.

 

[djfawcett]

Only 2 Su-57 delivered apparently. Which is weird because in some article/video they say already complete any 2021 obligation. So idk if it part of "supposed" 4 2021 batch or "separate" batch.

If you look closely to this screenshot, you can notice that two of four aircrafts are at a higher level of readiness.

I am not sure Webster's agrees with your definition of readiness.

 

[Alifzero]

Only 2 Su-57

And there should have been 2 in 2021. Actually, that's what they said before. Borisov apparently misspoke.

I can't find the original video on this production/delivery plan on youtube (seems deleted) to get better screenshot on Su-57 production/delivery plan.

But as Charly015 noted, in 2020 they got 1 plane, and in 2021 they should get 4.
Maybe technical bugs or pandemic make some delay.

 

[paralay]

,

 

[LMFS]

Those bastards are hiding them from us!

Hahaha, they have already 50 airframes in place for their world domination plans

Production plan
2019 - 1 pc .
2020 - 1 pc .
2021 - 4 pcs .
2022 - 4 pcs .
2023 - 7 pcs .
2024 - 12 pcs .
2025 - 16 pcs. (?)
2026 - 16 pcs. (?)
2027 - 16 pcs. (?)
total: 77 pcs.

I think the flaw in Charly015's schedule is that MoD talked about 22 units until end of 2024, IIRC, that is 6 less than in the plan above.

BTW, does the aircraft in the pictures above and in the link below belong to an actual combat squadron? No GLITs logo to be seen...

VK.com | VK

vk.com

Which is the limit of potential cooling capacity (assumed to be 22 KW/sqm, based on 9000 Kg fuel load estimate).

How do you calculate the cooling capacity of the plane, are you considering the bypass air of the engines? Would be interesting to throw a third stream there...

 

[stealthflanker]

How do you calculate the cooling capacity of the plane, are you considering the bypass air of the engines? Would be interesting to throw a third stream there...

Fuel capacity. as one way which apparently used for cooling is to sink those heat into the fuel reserve. and no. no bypass air just yet as it might require the actual size of the heat exchanger.

 

[Alifzero]

Apparently the new Su-57 featured on 2022 calendar

 

[Acatomic]

blue 52,one of the four new aircrafts in the 2021 batch

From this video:
Video by Филиал АО "Компания "Сухой"

You can see 101KS-O behind cockpit spinning

 

[icyplanetnhc (Steve)]

I've perused through sections of Yefim Gordon's Su-57 book. It's rather expansive with some pretty obscure minutia. As some have mentioned, his book seems to have everything and the kitchen sink in terms of thoroughness, which means inclusion of both credible reports as well as less well-regarded sources.

That said, the section on the T-50-5R airframe is quite interesting, as apparently, the T-50-5R that we currently see is actually the T-50-6-1 that had been given the "055" bort number. Originally, it was the last of the "first stage" airframes and initially had uncertain disposition plans due to the production of the "second stage" airframes, but it was subsequently finished using parts salvaged from the original T-50-5 after its accident; the original airframe was written off, and a picture of the hulk was included in page 193. At the time, production delays from the "second stage" structural redesign may have caused a shortage of available aircraft for conducting both the preliminary and state trials, so the completion of T-50-6-1 may have been a more affordable way to alleviate that problem.

 

[Scar]

a picture of the hulk was included in page 193.

 

[Scar]

You can see 101KS-O behind cockpit spinning

Great finding, but...why is it spinning constantly and so fast?! I thought it should be only moving when it tracks the missile detected by 101KS-U sensors...

 

[Saber]

You can see 101KS-O behind cockpit spinning

Great finding, but...why is it spinning constantly and so fast?! I thought it should be only moving when it tracks the missile detected by 101KS-U sensors...

Probably because it also functions as an IRST/EODAS type system while not firing lasers at missile warheads.

You can see the main mirror actually change vertical orientation as it's spinning. Wonder if this could be turned into a LIDAR capability.

 

[TR1]

Does the Gordon book have a lot of really new photographic material? Not 99% stuff you can already find on Russian forums?

 

[Scar]

Does the Gordon book have a lot of really new photographic material? Not 99% stuff you can already find on Russian forums?

Me particularly haven't seen that panorama with the burnt 50-5. Does anybody have this photo?

 

[flateric]

Just buy a book.

 

[Acatomic]

Made a gif in case video is removed:

 

[Scar]

Just buy a book.

Nyet

 

[stealthflanker]

That spinning MAWS... Maybe if one can get the amount of the rotation per second, it can be used as the system's scan rate in Hz or "frame time" or commonly known frame rate.

For an optical system to have proper TV output, high framerate is desired maybe at least 24 FPS. For a computer controlled system where the computer "sees" signals instead of pictures lower FPS is acceptable e.g 15 FPS or lower.

If the operational wavelength and detector material is known, detection range can be estimated.

 

[LMFS]

That spinning MAWS... Maybe if one can get the amount of the rotation per second, it can be used as the system's scan rate in Hz or "frame time" or commonly known frame rate.

For an optical system to have proper TV output, high framerate is desired maybe at least 24 FPS. For a computer controlled system where the computer "sees" signals instead of pictures lower FPS is acceptable e.g 15 FPS or lower.

The frame rate should be possible to estimate quite decently from the footage. This system works like an IRST for the most of the time but upon detection of a threat it probably keeps sector tracking for highgest accuracy during tracking / use of the dazzler. So it probably can both use relatively low frame rate for the scan phase and a higher rate during tracking

 

[Grey Havoc]

You can see 101KS-O behind cockpit spinning

Great finding, but...why is it spinning constantly and so fast?! I thought it should be only moving when it tracks the missile detected by 101KS-U sensors...

A self-test mode perhaps?

 

[GARGEAN]

You can see 101KS-O behind cockpit spinning

Great finding, but...why is it spinning constantly and so fast?! I thought it should be only moving when it tracks the missile detected by 101KS-U sensors...

A self-test mode perhaps?

Noone self-tests 24/7) It's in scanning mode.

 

[QuadroFX]

#52 "red" in Novosibirsk:

 

[QuadroFX]

#52 "red" and #02 "red" in Novosibirsk:

(c)NskPlanes

 

[Deino]

Is there a certain system behind these numbers? I don't get the numbering system!???

Now we have 01 blue, 02 red, 52 blue and also a 52 red??

And someone says, the Chinese serial systems is weird?!

 

[QuadroFX]

Is there a certain system behind these numbers? I don't get the numbering system!???

Now we have 01 blue, 02 red, 52 blue and also a 52 red??

And someone says, the Chinese serial systems is weird?!

And, probably, #51(red or blue), which photos not released yet.

 

[Alifzero]

Is there a certain system behind these numbers? I don't get the numbering system!???

Now we have 01 blue, 02 red, 52 blue and also a 52 red??

And someone says, the Chinese serial systems is weird?!

Could be repainted from blue 52 to red 52. And no info on new delivery to suggest that these two are not what they mentioned in January. Still, i don't understand why blue 01 and red 02 for GLITS and not blue 01 and blue 02.