Star Wars, Star Trek and other Sci-Fi

Orionblamblam

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Without wishing to be boringly on-topic, does anyone remember a science fiction series broadcast on UK TV that had a plot that went [as near as I can remember...] along the lines of; some sort of alien thing kept emerging from portals / wormholes / whatever and destroying things. If memory serves, they had a go at the Lake District first (why not Northamptonshire???). The end game of it all was a programme of rolling nuclear detonations that left the UK in a rather bad way (clearly, this wasn't noticed in Wellingborough ;) )

It was probably a load of old nonsense but I've been trying to track it down without success.
Sounds like "Invasion: Earth."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion:_Earth_(TV_series)
 

shedofdread

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Without wishing to be boringly on-topic, does anyone remember a science fiction series broadcast on UK TV that had a plot that went [as near as I can remember...] along the lines of; some sort of alien thing kept emerging from portals / wormholes / whatever and destroying things. If memory serves, they had a go at the Lake District first (why not Northamptonshire???). The end game of it all was a programme of rolling nuclear detonations that left the UK in a rather bad way (clearly, this wasn't noticed in Wellingborough ;) )

It was probably a load of old nonsense but I've been trying to track it down without success.
Sounds like "Invasion: Earth."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion:_Earth_(TV_series)
That's it! Thank you.
 

shedofdread

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That's it! Thank you.

I kinda-sorta remember the series (I remembered Fred Ward was in it, a few seconds on IMDB, boom, there ya go). I remember it as being dismal in the way that so much British science fiction is... this is it, we're doomed, no happy ending...
I was watching one of the Quatermass films the other day. At the end he's left ready to detonate some sort of nuclear device (arrives underslung a Wessex) but at least they've left him a flask and some sandwiches so not all bad, eh? ;)
 

Orionblamblam

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I was watching one of the Quatermass films the other day. At the end he's left ready to detonate some sort of nuclear device (arrives underslung a Wessex) but at least they've left him a flask and some sandwiches so not all bad, eh? ;)

Yup, that sounds about British. American sci-fi at least used to be all about the overly optimistic endings... incredibly superior aliens arrive, John McSquarejaw wades into the fight with nothing but a stogie and some quips, kicks the aliens ass, gets the girl, saves the day. But the British version would leave the planet a wasteland, the hero either evaporated or on the edge of it (while undergoing a moment of existential crisis), and everybody depressed. I suspect how WWII ended up might have something to do with that.
 

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Oh pleez. The British do it wrong/sad, the Americans are overly optimistic. And what has that got to do with the end of World War II? How about rationing in England after the war? People got by. How about the Lend-Lease debt which finally got paid off - in 2006 !!!


The Russians and Lend-Lease? "Yez, we hav a few of your B-29s. We pay no money. We busy working on way to bomb you."
 

Orionblamblam

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Oh pleez. The British do it wrong/sad, the Americans are overly optimistic. And what has that got to do with the end of World War II? How about rationing in England after the war? People got by. How about the Lend-Lease debt which finally got paid off - in 2006 !!!

Do you realize that you're kinda making my point? The US came out of WWII with its cities standing, its culture in ascendance, the economy *finally* crawling out of FDR's Depression. Lots of dead folks, but the economy was booming, we had The Bomb, America had saved the fricken' world. Britain, though, had cities bombed into rubble, an economy in shambles, an Empire falling apart, and everything was rationed. How can this *not* affect the general mood of people?
 

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Oh pleez. The British do it wrong/sad, the Americans are overly optimistic. And what has that got to do with the end of World War II? How about rationing in England after the war? People got by. How about the Lend-Lease debt which finally got paid off - in 2006 !!!

Do you realize that you're kinda making my point? The US came out of WWII with its cities standing, its culture in ascendance, the economy *finally* crawling out of FDR's Depression. Lots of dead folks, but the economy was booming, we had The Bomb, America had saved the fricken' world. Britain, though, had cities bombed into rubble, an economy in shambles, an Empire falling apart, and everything was rationed. How can this *not* affect the general mood of people?
And post WWII Japan gave us Godzilla.
 

edwest2

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Oh pleez. The British do it wrong/sad, the Americans are overly optimistic. And what has that got to do with the end of World War II? How about rationing in England after the war? People got by. How about the Lend-Lease debt which finally got paid off - in 2006 !!!

Do you realize that you're kinda making my point? The US came out of WWII with its cities standing, its culture in ascendance, the economy *finally* crawling out of FDR's Depression. Lots of dead folks, but the economy was booming, we had The Bomb, America had saved the fricken' world. Britain, though, had cities bombed into rubble, an economy in shambles, an Empire falling apart, and everything was rationed. How can this *not* affect the general mood of people?

My point: It's World War II and YOU are leading British troops in the field. "Here we go lads! Give it all you've got!!" Or "Well, lads. I'm kind of ambivalent about the whole thing. Do your best but I'm not optimistic."

Empire falling apart? How about attacked, attacked and attacked? Keep in mind that World War II was just a rerun of the First World War. The Americans coming back in to save the day, and "loaning" things that explode to our Allies.
 

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Oh pleez. The British do it wrong/sad, the Americans are overly optimistic. And what has that got to do with the end of World War II? How about rationing in England after the war? People got by. How about the Lend-Lease debt which finally got paid off - in 2006 !!!

Do you realize that you're kinda making my point? The US came out of WWII with its cities standing, its culture in ascendance, the economy *finally* crawling out of FDR's Depression. Lots of dead folks, but the economy was booming, we had The Bomb, America had saved the fricken' world. Britain, though, had cities bombed into rubble, an economy in shambles, an Empire falling apart, and everything was rationed. How can this *not* affect the general mood of people?
And post WWII Japan gave us Godzilla.

And uh... uh... uh... never mind.
 

Orionblamblam

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My point: It's World War II and YOU are leading British troops in the field. "Here we go lads! Give it all you've got!!" Or "Well, lads. I'm kind of ambivalent about the whole thing. Do your best but I'm not optimistic."

There's the mood during the war ("Keep grim and keep carrying on, proles" or whatever the signs were), and there's what follows after

Empire falling apart? How about attacked, attacked and attacked?

Attacked, and falling apart.
 

Orionblamblam

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STD.........Attracted no toy or action figure makers. Bad sign!

McFarlane toys, currently busy cranking out action figures for Spawn and Warhammer 40K and such, initially was on board to make action figures and full scale prop replicas like phasers. Then they saw some of the early episodes, and they realized that STD would create no such market, and they bailed. The *official* reason was that they were suddenly astounded about Federal law regarding the sale of toy guns, requiring orange barrels and the like, though no previous toy phaser had ever needed such a thing, and you can at this very moment buy a resin STD phaser on Amazon that has no such orange tip.

The prototype looked like it was well made and well engineered, though the base design was kinda crap in that it doesn't fit with the pre-TOS design ethic:

phaser1.jpg


There were similar plans for several lines of STD figures, almost all of which were quickly dropped once the licensees actually saw the show. There *have* actually been some STD action figures released; WalMart just a day or three ago had some of the Mego "Saru" figures on the shelf. Same shelf the same figures have been on for months. Still there *after* the toy department was effectively cleaned out by customers getting last minute Christmas gifts. Nobody wants a Saru. I've never seen the Mego Michael Burnham figure on a shelf, but according to Amazon they exist and are for sale (and look terrible). Interestingly, while the Saru figure is currently $13.98 on Amazon, the Burnham figure is only $9.99. In contrast, the Pike figure is $16.99, Kirk is $16.99, the Q figure is $17.38., Picard is $19.97, Khan is $39.99. Some of the high prices might be related to rarity, but low prices clearly indicate lack of interest. That the lead actor/character in the current flagship Trek program is essentially unwanted says a lot. The friggen salt vampire is $24.99.

That said, if you want model kits of the ships, a surprising number of STD kits are available, and Eaglemoss has an *insane* number of those ugly, ugly STD ships available as display pieces for shockingly high prices.

So... ships you can get. Characters, props, cosumes for cosplay and Halloween... unwanted. Nobody wants to pretend to be any of the execrable entities that make up the cast of recent Trek shows. They are awful people without the benefit of being interesting villains. They are just... banal petty evil.
 

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sferrin

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STD.........Attracted no toy or action figure makers. Bad sign!

McFarlane toys, currently busy cranking out action figures for Spawn and Warhammer 40K and such, initially was on board to make action figures and full scale prop replicas like phasers. Then they saw some of the early episodes, and they realized that STD would create no such market, and they bailed. The *official* reason was that they were suddenly astounded about Federal law regarding the sale of toy guns, requiring orange barrels and the like, though no previous toy phaser had ever needed such a thing, and you can at this very moment buy a resin STD phaser on Amazon that has no such orange tip.

The prototype looked like it was well made and well engineered, though the base design was kinda crap in that it doesn't fit with the pre-TOS design ethic:

phaser1.jpg


There were similar plans for several lines of STD figures, almost all of which were quickly dropped once the licensees actually saw the show. There *have* actually been some STD action figures released; WalMart just a day or three ago had some of the Mego "Saru" figures on the shelf. Same shelf the same figures have been on for months. Still there *after* the toy department was effectively cleaned out by customers getting last minute Christmas gifts. Nobody wants a Saru. I've never seen the Mego Michael Burnham figure on a shelf, but according to Amazon they exist and are for sale (and look terrible). Interestingly, while the Saru figure is currently $13.98 on Amazon, the Burnham figure is only $9.99. In contrast, the Pike figure is $16.99, Kirk is $16.99, the Q figure is $17.38., Picard is $19.97, Khan is $39.99. Some of the high prices might be related to rarity, but low prices clearly indicate lack of interest. That the lead actor/character in the current flagship Trek program is essentially unwanted says a lot. The friggen salt vampire is $24.99.

That said, if you want model kits of the ships, a surprising number of STD kits are available, and Eaglemoss has an *insane* number of those ugly, ugly STD ships available as display pieces for shockingly high prices.

So... ships you can get. Characters, props, cosumes for cosplay and Halloween... unwanted. Nobody wants to pretend to be any of the execrable entities that make up the cast of recent Trek shows. They are awful people without the benefit of being interesting villains. They are just... banal petty evil.

Well we do know everybody is just a bunch of Racist Bigots®. It's not the show's fault.
 

Orionblamblam

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It's not the show's fault.

In seriousness: ever since Star Wars, merchandizing has been a major part of any sci-fi franchise's financial plan (although Star Trek sorta led the way; lots of Trek products starting in the late 60's). But STD made a show where such products are largely not of interest to the existing fans who were turned off by the show... and *new* fans brought on board, who are enthralled by the shows replacing of the original Star trek ethos with the whining and crying and emotional validation of the new, aren't the kind to put on pointy ears and go to cons.

Good job.
 

sferrin

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It's not the show's fault.

In seriousness: ever since Star Wars, merchandizing has been a major part of any sci-fi franchise's financial plan (although Star Trek sorta led the way; lots of Trek products starting in the late 60's). But STD made a show where such products are largely not of interest to the existing fans who were turned off by the show... and *new* fans brought on board, who are enthralled by the shows replacing of the original Star trek ethos with the whining and crying and emotional validation of the new, aren't the kind to put on pointy ears and go to cons.

Good job.

Yeah, had a TOS model of the bridge and a buddy of mine had the Estes USS Enterprise rocket back in elementary school. I vaguely remember having a model of the Enterprise back then. Also had the USS Enterprise vertibird.
 

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The original Star Trek had value. Anything after represented a slow decline and more recently, an advertising vehicle for issue advocacy. Tell entertaining stories. If you - meaning Producers/Writers - want to create your perfect, 'everything is my way' universe then carry on. I won't be along.

"Well we do know everybody is just a bunch of Racist Bigots®. It's not the show's fault." Leave it there and I'm leaving. Stop painting everyone the same. Take 100 people, for example, and declare them all guilty of violating your views? Really?
 

Orionblamblam

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Yeah, had a TOS model of the bridge and a buddy of mine had the Estes USS Enterprise rocket back in elementary school. I vaguely remember having a model of the Enterprise back then. Also had the USS Enterprise vertibird.

While he was no George Lucas, Roddenberry understood the value of merchandizing. The model kit company AMT was onboard with Star Trek from the beginning, gaining the rights to make their model of the Enterprise - which I *believe* remains the most popular model kit in history - as well as the Shuttlecraft, Klingon warship, Enterprise bridge, etc.

Prior to Star Trek, other sci-fi movies and TV shows had had merchandise... Ruck Rogers zap guns and the like. But Star Trek really kicked it off. How much of that is due to the wild fandom, and how much of the wild fandom was due to the availability of merchandise... dunno. But Trek was the first franchise with that level of stuff, and that level of fandom. To see both aspects shat upon by STD and STP is saddening.
 

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Buck Rogers - ray guns. I mean if you're going to be a fan boy, do the research.

There was no "wild fandom" before Star Trek. Yes, there were a few SF fanzines in the past, i.e. pre-1968. Prior to seeing the Enterprise, all rockets to other planets were tubes with a pointy end and the opposite end with flames and fins. You got the occasional odd design like the saucer in Forbidden Planet and the very interesting alien ships in Robinson Crusoe on Mars (1964).

No, the Enterprise had matter-antimatter engines and a unique design, followed by the Klingon, Romulan and other ships. I recall reading about the design selection process for the original Enterprise. Roddenberry asked for something different and modelmakers set about producing some models that were suspended from a ceiling. He spotted the Enterprise he liked but it was upside down, so it was flipped over. The original Star Trek had the perfect blend of concepts, tales of heroism and designs that never existed before. THAT creates interest, THAT creates a fandom that can range from "I watched it and really liked it" to lobbying the network after the original Star Trek was taken off the air.
 
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Orionblamblam

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Buck Rogers - ray guns. I mean if you're going to be a fan boy, do the research.

Oh, please. At this moment I am looking at my "Buck Rogers Atomic Pistol" from Daisy. It's a family heirloom. Don't try to out-nerd me, boy.

20220106_125616.jpg
 

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Justo Miranda

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Justo Miranda

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edwest2

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Al Williamson. Now there's a guy who could draw. I met a collector of original Williamson daily newspaper strips. Great to see in person.
 

Orionblamblam

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13400874014_b7ebec6d28_o-600x1023-jpg.671138


That is a *terrible* design for an outfit, Horrible ergonomics, tragically outdated, criminally problematic.

I will need to see it on a variety of actual women to judge if it has *any* merit whatsoever.
 

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That's it! Thank you.

I kinda-sorta remember the series (I remembered Fred Ward was in it, a few seconds on IMDB, boom, there ya go). I remember it as being dismal in the way that so much British science fiction is... this is it, we're doomed, no happy ending...
I was watching one of the Quatermass films the other day. At the end he's left ready to detonate some sort of nuclear device (arrives underslung a Wessex) but at least they've left him a flask and some sandwiches so not all bad, eh? ;)

That would be 'The Quatermass Conclusion' (aka Quatermass IV)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatermass_(TV_serial)
 

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Orionblamblam

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Oh look, 950,000 Volts. Don't need or want one. The design is ugly.

By comparison, an electric chair used for executions is between 2,000 and 2,200 Volts...

Admittedly my own favorite stun gun uses stun bolts of 230 grains, but hey, diversity is our strength so having zap guns of various voltages and muzzle velocities is what makes a society great.
 

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Tell me how realistic this scenario is: a powder-eating bug is spliced together...with soldiers' rounds 'immunized' with toxins that make their rounds even more lethal. Would it work at all? Or backfire with us all back to crossbows?
 

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Tell me how realistic this scenario is: a powder-eating bug is spliced together...with soldiers' rounds 'immunized' with toxins that make their rounds even more lethal. Would it work at all? Or backfire with us all back to crossbows?

Very unrealistic.
1) A microbe that eats gunpowder would have to either be so powerful that it eats its way through a metallic cartridge to get at the powder (and thus will eat its way through modern industrialized society), or so universally present that there is no place on the planet where someone can set up a gunpowder + ammo factory that isn't tainted with the bug so badly that the powder is installed in the cartridge with the bug already gnawing on the powder.
2) Such a microbe would have to not only eat Kirk vs Gorn brand black powder (sulfur, carbon and potassium nitrate) but also smokeless powder (nitrocellulose), as well as the *numerous* alternate propellants that have been cooked up over the years. Such a microbe would hardly be likely to stick to just those, however. We'd probably find that it also eats, say, cellulose, meaning that not only do all wooden structures collapse, but paper dissolves and trees and plants turn to mush. Loss of gunpowder would be a small concern in such a situation.
 

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