Standard Missile projects.

[Josh_TN]

Jet TAB for Standard? That seems like an odd choice.

Jet Tab would only be able to give pitch and yaw control whereas the jet-vanes (As used on the ESSM) would also give roll-control.

On another note does anyone have any performance figures for the Mk-72 booster such as its burn-time and thrust?

Are there available online any documents about the history and development of the Mk-72 booster introduced by the SM-2 Block-IV?

I saw a graphic once that indicated a burn out distance of 1800 feet. Not sure if there’s any truth in it.

 

[sferrin]

Jet TAB for Standard? That seems like an odd choice.

Jet Tab would only be able to give pitch and yaw control whereas the jet-vanes (As used on the ESSM) would also give roll-control.

On another note does anyone have any performance figures for the Mk-72 booster such as its burn-time and thrust?

Are there available online any documents about the history and development of the Mk-72 booster introduced by the SM-2 Block-IV?

Mk 72 Booster

Manufacturer: Aerojet
Diameter: 0.53m
Length: 1.70m
Volume: 0.374 m3
Loaded Mass: 712 kg
Propellant Mass: 468 kg
Empty Mass: 244 kg
Propellant Type: HTPB-AP
Propellant ISP: 260 to 265 seconds
Burn Length: 6 seconds

Notes: A significantly shorter booster developed to enable SM-2ER to be fired from AEGIS VLS.

From the Alternate Wars website. Not sure where he got the information but he's a member here. (Ryan C.)

U.S. Navy Standard Missile Family

 

[NMaude]

Snip.

Thanks.

Would the thrust of the Mk-72 be about the same as the previous Mk-70 booster?

 

[sferrin]

Snip.

Thanks.

Would the thrust of the Mk-72 be about the same as the previous Mk-70 booster?

Mk 70 Booster (aka EX-70)

Manufacturer: Thiokol
Diameter: 0.46 meters
Length: 3.93 meters
Volume: 0.652 m3
Loaded Mass: 973 kg
Propellant Mass: 682 kg
Empty Mass: 291 kg
Propellant Type: HTPB-AP
Propellant ISP: 260 to 265 seconds

Mk 72 Booster

Manufacturer: Aerojet
Diameter: 0.53m
Length: 1.70m
Volume: 0.374 m3
Loaded Mass: 712 kg
Propellant Mass: 468 kg
Empty Mass: 244 kg
Propellant Type: HTPB-AP
Propellant ISP: 260 to 265 seconds
Burn Length: 6 seconds

Notes: A significantly shorter booster developed to enable SM-2ER to be fired from AEGIS VLS.

The Mk70 is burning about 50% more fuel in roughly the same amount of time so I'd say no.

 

[NMaude]

I've just been doing some google searching on the Mk-72's thrust and I found this paper, Parameter Estimation and Analysis of Standard-2 Missile, which if accurate states that the thrust of the Mk-72 is 174KN or 39,150Lbf.

 

[sferrin]

I've just been doing some google searching on the Mk-72's thrust and I found this paper, Parameter Estimation and Analysis of Standard-2 Missile, which if accurate states that the thrust of the Mk-72 is 174KN or 39,150Lbf.

From the figures I posted above it would give about 44,700lb of thrust at the low end. The ISP your source gives for the booster is quite low (224 ISP).

 

[NMaude]

From the figures I posted above it would give about 44,700lb of thrust at the low end.

That's a good point.

The ISP your source gives for the booster is quite low (224 ISP).

Good point, however I'd say that the scientist writing that paper were using estimates based on publicly available data which appears to be rather sparse.

Edited to add: Thinking about those Isp figures the Chinese researchers used in their paper may be typical of equivalent solid rocket-motors used by the PLA.

 

[NMaude]

I was at the library today (I don't have a scanner at home) and I scanned a 1997 Raytheon brochure for the SM2 Block-IVA missile, here it is:

 

[CIC-TAO]

MDA with Navy July 24 tested SM-6 Dual II, fired four from Burke destroyer Ralph Johnson off Hawaii, presuming to test if effective in defending a carrier against the Chinese anti-carrier ballistic missiles DF-21 and 26

" one target was successfully intercepted. At this time, we cannot confirm the second target was destroyed"

Anyone know the difference between the SM-6 Dual I and Dual II?

From <https://www.mda.mil/news/21news0012.html>

Would Dual II use the new 21” body?

No, the 21-inch version is SM-6 Block 1B. SM-6 Dual II seems to be a simple upgrade of the Dual I version, which enabled both air and missile defense in a single missile.

SBT increment 2

 

[CIC-TAO]

这里有一张有趣的图表，显示了美国海军库存中各种主要舰载导弹的潜在目标。

对我来说，这里出乎意料的启示是，带有 21 英寸推进堆栈的新版本 SM-6 Block 1B 被显示为严格的 ASuW 武器。也许只是教义问题？（SM-6 Blk IA 将在 AAW 角色中做所有必要的事情）

编辑：看来我欠这个 PowerPoint 操作员一个道歉：https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/standard-missile-projects.7671/page-4#post-343886

（较小的启示是，他们不认为 RAM 或 ESSM 具有 ASuW 能力，尽管 HAS 自 1990 年代末以来就已经存在。也可能是一种理论而非技术选择。）


View attachment 673305

see my twitter

https://twitter.com/x/status/1238400744786505729

View: https://twitter.com/W_ChiefGunner/status/1238400744786505729

 

[CIC-TAO]

FY24 ten SM-6 IB, unit cost 8.54M

 

[sferrin]

Jesus.

 

[Josh_TN]

Presumably these are pre-production/LRIP rounds. I wouldn't have thought IB would be twice as expensive as IA when the main change is a larger rocket.

 

[bring_it_on]

Presumably these are pre-production/LRIP rounds. I wouldn't have thought IB would be twice as expensive as IA when the main change is a larger rocket.

We also know that it has a newer warhead and probably other changes that have not been publicly disclosed.

 

[Josh_TN]

Presumably these are pre-production/LRIP rounds. I wouldn't have thought IB would be twice as expensive as IA when the main change is a larger rocket.

We also know that it has a newer warhead and probably other changes that have not been publicly disclosed.

I had thought that SM-6 Ib used the necked down to the same front end as SM-Ia?

 

[sferrin]

 

[NMaude]

I had thought that SM-6 Ib used the necked down to the same front end as SM-Ia?

SM-!a? Do you mean SM-6 Block IA?

 

[Josh_TN]

I had thought that SM-6 Ib used the necked down to the same front end as SM-Ia?

SM-!a? Do you mean SM-6 Block IA?

Yes. I thought the IB uses the existing warhead and guidance of the IA, just with a 21” motor.

 

[aonestudio]

MDA Test Successfully Intercepts Ballistic Missile Target

PACIFIC OCEAN - The U.S. Missile Defense Agency, in cooperation with the U.S. Navy, successfully conducted Flight Test Aegis Weapon System 31 Event 1a (FTM-31 E1a).

www.cpf.navy.mil

A Standard Missile-6 (SM-6) Dual II with Software Upgrade (SWUP) is launched from the USS Daniel Inouye (DDG 118) off the coast of the Pacific Missile Range Facility in Kauai, Hawaii as part of Flight Test Aegis Weapon System 31 Event 1a (FTM-31 E1a), March 30, 2023. The Missile Defense Agency, in cooperation with the U. S. Navy, held the successful missile defense event that demonstrated the capability of a ballistic missile defense (BMD)-configured Aegis ship to detect, track, engage, and intercept a medium range ballistic missile target in the terminal phase of flight utilizing the SM-6 Dual II SWUP in a single salvo of two interceptors.

 

[NMaude]

Does anyone know what the MRBM target was?

 

[seruriermarshal]

MDA Test Successfully Intercepts Ballistic Missile Target

PACIFIC OCEAN - The U.S. Missile Defense Agency, in cooperation with the U.S. Navy, successfully conducted Flight Test Aegis Weapon System 31 Event 1a (FTM-31 E1a).

www.cpf.navy.mil

A Standard Missile-6 (SM-6) Dual II with Software Upgrade (SWUP) is launched from the USS Daniel Inouye (DDG 118) off the coast of the Pacific Missile Range Facility in Kauai, Hawaii as part of Flight Test Aegis Weapon System 31 Event 1a (FTM-31 E1a), March 30, 2023. The Missile Defense Agency, in cooperation with the U. S. Navy, held the successful missile defense event that demonstrated the capability of a ballistic missile defense (BMD)-configured Aegis ship to detect, track, engage, and intercept a medium range ballistic missile target in the terminal phase of flight utilizing the SM-6 Dual II SWUP in a single salvo of two interceptors.

strange , I think FTM-31 E1a include 4 SM-6 attack 2 targets

 

[NMaude]

I scanned three more STANDARD missile brochures that I'd got from Raytheon in 1998. and 1999 today:

 

[TomS]

strange , I think FTM-31 E1a include 4 SM-6 attack 2 targets

That was FTM-33.

 

[seruriermarshal]

strange , I think FTM-31 E1a include 4 SM-6 attack 2 targets

That was FTM-33.

The patch of FTM-31 E1a ( stellar hydra ) have 4 heads

 

[sferrin]

MDA Test Successfully Intercepts Ballistic Missile Target

PACIFIC OCEAN - The U.S. Missile Defense Agency, in cooperation with the U.S. Navy, successfully conducted Flight Test Aegis Weapon System 31 Event 1a (FTM-31 E1a).

www.cpf.navy.mil

A Standard Missile-6 (SM-6) Dual II with Software Upgrade (SWUP) is launched from the USS Daniel Inouye (DDG 118) off the coast of the Pacific Missile Range Facility in Kauai, Hawaii as part of Flight Test Aegis Weapon System 31 Event 1a (FTM-31 E1a), March 30, 2023. The Missile Defense Agency, in cooperation with the U. S. Navy, held the successful missile defense event that demonstrated the capability of a ballistic missile defense (BMD)-configured Aegis ship to detect, track, engage, and intercept a medium range ballistic missile target in the terminal phase of flight utilizing the SM-6 Dual II SWUP in a single salvo of two interceptors.

strange , I think FTM-31 E1a include 4 SM-6 attack 2 targets

Says two and one target. Maybe 4 + 2 was too expensive.

 

[seruriermarshal]

MDA Test Successfully Intercepts Ballistic Missile Target

PACIFIC OCEAN - The U.S. Missile Defense Agency, in cooperation with the U.S. Navy, successfully conducted Flight Test Aegis Weapon System 31 Event 1a (FTM-31 E1a).

www.cpf.navy.mil

A Standard Missile-6 (SM-6) Dual II with Software Upgrade (SWUP) is launched from the USS Daniel Inouye (DDG 118) off the coast of the Pacific Missile Range Facility in Kauai, Hawaii as part of Flight Test Aegis Weapon System 31 Event 1a (FTM-31 E1a), March 30, 2023. The Missile Defense Agency, in cooperation with the U. S. Navy, held the successful missile defense event that demonstrated the capability of a ballistic missile defense (BMD)-configured Aegis ship to detect, track, engage, and intercept a medium range ballistic missile target in the terminal phase of flight utilizing the SM-6 Dual II SWUP in a single salvo of two interceptors.

strange , I think FTM-31 E1a include 4 SM-6 attack 2 targets

Says two and one target. Maybe 4 + 2 was too expensive.

Yes , Only medium range ballistic missile target in press , but maybe another is a cruise missile target or Hypersonic traget . I hear T3C2 traget is interesting . seems like there are different RVs . one of they is a Hypersonic traget .

 

[seruriermarshal]

 

[Forest Green]

The patch of FTM-31 E1a ( stellar hydra ) have 4 heads

T3C2? No mind, I found answer:

Type 3 Configuration 2.

https://www.mda.mil/global/documents/pdf/Moriarty,%20D.%20_(TC)TargetsCountermeasures%20Overview.pdf

T3 – Type 3 – Complex Target Configuration, often associated with one-of-a-kind specific target capability requirement

https://www.mda.mil/global/documents/pdf/4%20Frank%20Barrow%20Targets%20and%20Countermeasures%20Program.pdf

 

[seruriermarshal]

The patch of FTM-31 E1a ( stellar hydra ) have 4 heads

T3C2?

yes, From the patch, used T3C2

 

[Forest Green]

What's interesting from my post above is that C-17s seem to be succeeding with target missiles where B-52s have failed with ARRW. Bizarre!

 

[sferrin]

What's interesting from my post above is that C-17s seem to be succeeding with target missiles where B-52s have failed with ARRW. Bizarre!

C-17s, C-130s. Hell, they cobble these things together on a (relatively) shoe-string budget, and they're off to the races. That is the truly infuriating part of the failures. "Whoops, battery was dead." "Whoops, we forgot to hook up the blue wire." "Welp, we've had two failures, clearly the technology isn't ready for prime time so cancel it."

 

[NMaude]

So a T3C2 target was used in the latest SM-6 test?

 

[sferrin]

"“Our Patriot target vehicle uses decommissioned Minuteman motor stages, and our Medium Range Ballistic Missile T3c2 target for MDA uses a decommissioned Navy motor as the first stage and a decommissioned Air Force motor for the second stage,” offered Pudoka."





1st Stage is a Trident C-4 motor (don't know which stage).

M57A1 (2nd Stage)

---

Hercules solid rocket engine. Hera second stage.
AKA: Hera-2. Status: Retired 1999. Thrust: 76.00 kN (17,085 lbf). Gross mass: 1,900 kg (4,100 lb). Unfuelled mass: 300 kg (660 lb). Burn time: 59 s. Height: 2.10 m (6.80 ft). Diameter: 0.97 m (3.18 ft).

I'd guess this is likely meant to be a DF-21 or DF-26 emulator.

https://www.mda.mil/global/documents/pdf/Moriarty,%20D.%20_%28TC%29TargetsCountermeasures%20Overview.pdf

https://www.mda.mil/global/documents/pdf/4%20Frank%20Barrow%20Targets%20and%20Countermeasures%20Program.pdf

 

[seruriermarshal]

View attachment 696829

View attachment 696830

So a T3C2 target was used in the latest SM-6 test?

Used in FTM-31E1 ( 29.05.2021), too

 

[NMaude]

View attachment 696829

View attachment 696830

The attachments aren't showing.

 

[TomS]

strange , I think FTM-31 E1a include 4 SM-6 attack 2 targets

That was FTM-33.

The patch of FTM-31 E1a ( stellar hydra ) have 4 heads

Patches are not always quite so literal. Like FM-8 (Stellar Valkyrie) has four stars but didn't involved four missiles.

This is a redo of FTM-31, which was two SM-6 vs 1 MRBM. Whether the four hydra heads means anything is unclear.

However, FTM-33 was four SM-6 versus two MRBM. I've not seen a patch for it.

US Navy and MDA conduct Flight Test Aegis Weapon System 33

The US Missile Defense Agency (MDA) and the US Navy have conducted a missile defence flight test over the ocean northwest of Hawaii.

www.naval-technology.com

 

[NASA]

This was from some FY report and shows the tests scheduled for 2021*. Two tests were scheduled, and both involved four SM-6s, one test was against two SRBMs, and the other against an MRBM. The first test was for Dual II against MRBM and failed in early 2021.

(apologies for the multiple edits, I mixed up some of the dates)

 

[NASA]

I scanned three more STANDARD missile brochures that I'd got from Raytheon in 1998. and 1999 today:

Beautiful scans, never seen these before. Thanks for taking the time and effort to scan them!

 

[seruriermarshal]

strange , I think FTM-31 E1a include 4 SM-6 attack 2 targets

That was FTM-33.

The patch of FTM-31 E1a ( stellar hydra ) have 4 heads

Patches are not always quite so literal. Like FM-8 (Stellar Valkyrie) has four stars but didn't involved four missiles.

This is a redo of FTM-31, which was two SM-6 vs 1 MRBM. Whether the four hydra heads means anything is unclear.

However, FTM-33 was four SM-6 versus two MRBM. I've not seen a patch for it.

US Navy and MDA conduct Flight Test Aegis Weapon System 33

The US Missile Defense Agency (MDA) and the US Navy have conducted a missile defence flight test over the ocean northwest of Hawaii.

www.naval-technology.com

FM-8 have 5 stars because "FM-8 the fifth of a planned six flight test series within the missile defense Block 2004 time period, scheduled for the 1st quarter of FY2004 as of February 2002. By February 2004 this test was scheduled for the 2nd quarter of FY2005."

 

[NASA]

strange , I think FTM-31 E1a include 4 SM-6 attack 2 targets

That was FTM-33.

The patch of FTM-31 E1a ( stellar hydra ) have 4 heads

Patches are not always quite so literal. Like FM-8 (Stellar Valkyrie) has four stars but didn't involved four missiles.

This is a redo of FTM-31, which was two SM-6 vs 1 MRBM. Whether the four hydra heads means anything is unclear.

However, FTM-33 was four SM-6 versus two MRBM. I've not seen a patch for it.

US Navy and MDA conduct Flight Test Aegis Weapon System 33

The US Missile Defense Agency (MDA) and the US Navy have conducted a missile defence flight test over the ocean northwest of Hawaii.

www.naval-technology.com

FM-8 have 5 stars because "FM-8 tis he fifth of a planned six flight test series within the missile defense Block 2004 time period, scheduled for the 1st quarter of FY2004 as of February 2002. By February 2004 this test was scheduled for the 2nd quarter of FY2005."

FM-7/8 were super interesting tests. I was just reading about them earlier today. They apparently demoed two of four possible "burn" options for the SDACS/KW.

While I'm still going through the sources, what I have gathered so far is that:

The high-energy mode mentioned in the GAO document seems to be a single pulse "all burn", while sustain-mode seems to be two pulses + a coast. There is also a burn-coast-burn mode (which has been discussed in many documents) and a no-burn (?) mode hinted at by Simon Peterson on twitter.