SNECMA TF104/TF106/TF306 Turbofans

overscan (PaulMM)

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Some good info here:
In 1959 Pratt & Whitney Aircraft, through the United Aircraft Corporation purchased a minor holding in SNECMA. Two important outcomes of this agreement have been SNECMA's overhaul of P&W engines in Europe, notably the JT3 and JT4, and France's development of the P&W JTF10 turbofan for the Mirage IIIV V/STOL interceptor. This latter work has evolved in two stages, producing first the TF104 and 106, of 10,500lb and 11,210lb thrust, respectively (both of which were closely derived from the original civil JTF10) and secondly the TF306, more closely related to the P&W TF30 powering the General Dynamics F-111.

Read more:

http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1966/1966%20-%200031.pdf
 

Deltafan

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Thanks again Overscan ;)

It should be interesting to know the M-45G rate.
 

elmayerle

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Ah, but the interesting thing is why P&W was allowed to buy such a holding, 'twas part of the contract to allow French production of the military JT4C (J75) for the proposed Mirage IVB. Personally, I think SNECMA did better with the TF30 than P&W did; much as the Swedes got better performance from an afterburning Avon than RR did, for equivalent marks.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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TF104

Dry thrust: 3800kg
A/B thrust: 5800-6200kg
SFC: 0.6/2.55
Bypass ratio: 1.5
Weight: 1550kg
length: 5m
Diameter: 1.3m

TF106A2
Dry thrust: 4200kg
A/B thrust: 7500kg (TF106A3, 500kg more thrust)
SFC: 0.66/2.5
Bypass ratio: 1.3
Mass: 1780kg

TF306
Dry thrust: 5210kg (C), 5780kg (D), 5970kg (E), 6550kg (F)
A/B thrust: 9150kg (C), 10000kg (D), 10330kg (E), 11000kg (F)
SFC: 0.65/2.35
Bypass ratio: 1.03
Mass: 1750kg
Length: 5.3m
Diameter: 1.2m

Liebert & Buyck, Mirage F1 et les Mirage de seconde generation
 

MIRAGE 4000

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Interesting, Snecma worked in 1966/1967 on "ramjet" TF 306 for "high Mach fighter projects" (M 48 and M51) (think it was like the PW J58 on SR-71).
 

LowObservable

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Even more interesting... somewhere on the Web is JT11D engine (aka J58) model on show at Paris in 1961...

Ecco.... http://www.thejumpingfrog.com/si/1184472.html

It had to be interesting to ask questions about that...
 

Archibald

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Le Fana mention the deal in its 336, October 1997 edition. Think SNECMA gave 10.9% or so.

Well, J.C Carbonel had a nice article on the J-58 at its "aerostories" website.
It briefly mentioned that the J-58 had been considered for Concorde before the Olympus came in, hence the presence of the engine at Le Bourget airshow in 1963...

The Mirage IVB was supposed to be 57 tons, 5000 km range, enlarged variant of the Mirage IVA.
Alas, France didn't have an engine powerfull enough for such a monster. As a consequence, four engines were considered
- RB-142
- Olympus
- Iroquois (damn... the CF-105 engine)
- And the J-75!

But De Gaulle aparently stated that the french nuclear bomber couldn't rely on foreign engines. Hence the return to the IVA.. and buying of KC-135FR in 1964.
 

Caravellarella

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Re: SNECMA TF-106 experimental afterburning turbofan......

Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article in French about the SNECMA TF-106 experimental afterburning turbofan which was derived from the Pratt & Whitney JTF10 engine. It was flight-tested in the Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage III T test-bed and was also used for the early test-flights of the Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage III V-01 VTOL fighter prototype......

Moderators; this Topic is a suitable candidate for transfer to the new Propulsion forum; these engines were experimental and never made it to full production status……

The article comes from the 16th June 1961 issue of Les Ailes......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Lascaris

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Were TF306 to find its way in production aircraft would the United States be able to impose export restrictions on say Mirage F3?
 

Lascaris

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I wondered what was in te fine print of the deal so to speak. If it was just a license agreement it would had been obvious. But SNECMA had gotten the design as part of the partnership deal with P+W and then went on to modify it a fair deal.
 

Archibald

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I wish I could know when was the TF306 officially abandonned.
- Aviation Magazine says December 1969.
- Both Mirage F2 and G flew until 1971 when the former was retired and the later crashed.
- But the writting was on the wall for TF306 since the Mirage F3 had been scrapped in 1967 and the 9K50, scaled-down F1 chosen instead.

So I still have no idea whether that engine was stopped in 1967 (F3) 1968 (M53 development began) or 1969 (December)

Sweet Jesus. The years 1965-1975 saw a complete mess of prototypes and requirements - between Dassault, the AdA, Aéronavale, and French ministry of Defense.
And SNECMA for the engines: 9K50 and M45 and M53 and TF106 and TF306.
And the Jaguar on top of that.
 

klem

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You have cited reliable sources, but there is also the official website of Dassault and Camareo 10 "T2 military aircraft". who knows maybe there is an exact confirmation in the latter.
 

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