No pics from the other side... I'm wondering if it has a gun ;)
It doesn't have the aux intake that's present on B/D Gripens under the rear cockpit. The hump behind the cockpit where the (ECS?) exhausts are seems more pronounced. Looks like a bit more work has gone into the F rather than just sticking a B/D cockpit segment to an E fuselage.
 
Furthermore, it doesn't help that F-35 that was promised to everyone by this point was block 4. It's now 2026, and it's still being promised 5-7 years into the future.
If block 4 had been promised, theres a chance that LM could be in breach of contract themselves. At least there could be legal justification for a reduced buy.
 
Brazil has its first 11 airframes and has built an F with Saab that is now being tested. I was talking about maintenance costs and personnel, which should be an advantage for a smaller simpler aircraft thats already designed for reduced maintenance. Not to mention, Saab uses open systems for the integration side, so Canada or Ukrain or Brazil could integrate a new missile type without a queue for Saab to approve it. Compared to F-35 still waiting for Meteor after how many years?
 
Not to mention, Saab uses open systems for the integration side
What open systems? It uses Saab one just like LM on F-35 that they can choose what access to provide rather than some sort of internationally recognised and available standards like Pyramid or FACE

Which weapons have actually been integrated onto Gripen E currently vs just being photographed alongside at airshows?
 
What open systems? It uses Saab one just like LM on F-35 that they can choose what access to provide rather than some sort of internationally recognised and available standards like Pyramid or FACE

Which weapons have actually been integrated onto Gripen E currently vs just being photographed alongside at airshows?
greipen_e_weapon_2340_modif.jpg
 
Err... If waffles are ok to be served to us here, it's for a mod to decide, not you, Sir. Meanwhile, maybe add a bit of sugar to the ones you serve.
The statements Ainen was making had no relevance to the discussion on the reasons the RCAF was potentially going to operate a mixed fleet. If you have an issue with what I have written then call it out with facts to support it...
Brazil has its first 11 airframes and has built an F with Saab that is now being tested. I was talking about maintenance costs and personnel, which should be an advantage for a smaller simpler aircraft thats already designed for reduced maintenance. Not to mention, Saab uses open systems for the integration side, so Canada or Ukrain or Brazil could integrate a new missile type without a queue for Saab to approve it. Compared to F-35 still waiting for Meteor after how many years?
Brazil's IOC is for A2A only so yes limited and Sweden has still yet to IOC.
The Gripen would solve at least in part the manning issue .
Each aircraft still requires a pilot right... So how does that solve the aircrew manning issue? It also removes more pilots from being available for operational service as both types in service would require both airframes and aircrew at operational conversion units aside from other doubling up across maintenance and logistics.
Also using different aircrafts for NATO common expeditionary forces and internal air policing makes perfect sense. Historically, Canada had used Canadair CF-104 Starfighter in Europe and CF-101 Voodoo interceptors in the NORAD missions. Both aircrafts optimised for their specific role.
Great job, reference the RCAF from the 1970s... Canada opted to move from multiple types to one type in the CF-118 because of the cost savings
And the Gripen on the home front would bring a huge benefit:
Costs-per-flight-hour-of-Militarys-Fighter-jets.jpg

https://warwingsdaily.com/the-cost-of-fighter-jets-per-flight-hour/

"The Gripen is known for its low operating cost of around €7,000 ($7,500) per hour, making it one of the most economical fighter jets in service with Western air forces."

Over the canadian frozen tundra the chances of meeting a stealthy SU-57 are close to zero. Sukhois have no means to go there. But what you could find, beside stray airliners, are ancient Tu-95 Bears, which can only detect you visually, be you a stealth aircraft or not. On the other hand, cinematic performance of the Gripen is similar with the one of a F-35, it can intercept it`s target as fast, and the Leonardo Raven ES-05 AESA radar and the Meteor missile see and hit at least as far as the F-35`s AN/APG-81 radar and AMRAAM combination. In fact, the Gripen outranges and outguns the F-35. The Meteor boasts the largest No Escape Zone of any BVR missile in service.
Again, if you want to be taken seriously then use real facts, not marketing fluff and completely irrelevant comparisons.
 
Each aircraft still requires a pilot right... So how does that solve the aircrew manning issue? It also removes more pilots from being available for operational service as both types in service would require both airframes and aircrew at operational conversion units aside from other doubling up across maintenance and logistics.
The Gripen has the F dual seat version. You can make operational conversion inside the unit. Also you can also start training a pilot for various missions while it can fulfill the basic air policing mission. And the -F is also fully combat capable, and able to perform different specialised missions. This removes the need for other more specialised types of aircrafts.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHzMnATB3d8
 
Opportunity is it's built to be ground-guided/networked in the first place; it's an "interceptor" by design. Just a rather small, almost point defense one.
And Erieye would also be integrated, with no serious US alternative.
Excellent job at making my point. Many of those weapons are not integrated and there is no plan to do so. It's just marketing.
Except that any airforce could integrate a capability if they want to, they get the source code for everything except flight systems. They dont need to wait years for Saab to approve it. Still costs money but more straight forward.
 
Folks, a question for the more knowledgeable here.
Given what seems likely shift in SwAF Gripen acquisition to more of the F model?
Are there any papers or articles in circulation regarding the MUM-T capability of the 2 seat Gripen?
With the growing interest in Drone control and network centric warfare.

The benefits of a 2 seater are clear and indeed I am struck by one of the rare examples of Indian procurement foresight being their specifying FGFA as a 2 seater, not that that worked too well for them.

With the rise in MUM-T as an operational concept, I am curious as to what info is out there regarding the Gripen F in that role.
 
Folks, a question for the more knowledgeable here.
Given what seems likely shift in SwAF Gripen acquisition to more of the F model?
Are there any papers or articles in circulation regarding the MUM-T capability of the 2 seat Gripen?
With the growing interest in Drone control and network centric warfare.

The benefits of a 2 seater are clear and indeed I am struck by one of the rare examples of Indian procurement foresight being their specifying FGFA as a 2 seater, not that that worked too well for them.

With the rise in MUM-T as an operational concept, I am curious as to what info is out there regarding the Gripen F in that role.
I saw an article saying that Gripen-F's 2nd pilot has a fully functional cockpit, and suggested its ideal for roles like coordinating drones etc.
 
I don't think you can guess accurately based on your statements to date.
Aircraft with ferry range half the range of main opfor weapon threat is surely going to do it.
Just add enough secrecy on it, and hope USAF will do as much as possible.

For all it's weakness, Gripen at least comes with LRAAMs and drop tanks from the get go.
 
Beaming is dead against post-1990s radars, more so for against data fusion and ESA; gates are almost unrealistic to keep in, and there's endless revisit on top. EW should help, but only to a degree, especially since side flight will deny most aircraft much of their own defensive jamming.

It can still occur in individual combat accidentally, as ability to engage in combat at or beyond 90 degrees is incredibly useful even without beaming, and side flight (aka flight with zero advance to/from target) is powerful in itself; in any case, it's a rather accidental story for peer long range bvraam fight, which is practically irrelevant outside of narrow circumstances.
It certainly can't even be considered as a substitute to LO.

But overall, as of 2020s there should be relatively few Frontline fighters in Europe against which it is still valid.
 
Last edited:
Speaking as a European as far as I’m concerned the less that other countries depend on the US for military supplies the better. I personally think at least in Europe we should strive for independence in all technical areas and not just science. It’s not good to allow an effective monopoly to develop.

I think the US has made this easier a decision by effectively forcing the issue.
I happen to agree that it's better for your own country to provide as much of your military supplies in house as possible.

I'm wondering if this was a deliberate attempt to force Europe to fund their militaries to the levels agreed to in the North Atlantic Treaty.
 
I'm wondering if this was a deliberate attempt to force Europe to fund their militaries to the levels agreed to in the North Atlantic Treaty.
I very much doubt it.
I think the angle Trump was going for was "you guys should be spending more money on our military products".
Like most decisions made by the current regime, it has backfired spectacularly.
 
Last edited:
https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...nother-20-gripen-jets-sweden-says-2026-06-04/

Brazil could buy another 20 Gripen jets, Sweden says​

By Reuters
June 4, 20261:33 PM GMT+2Updated June 4, 2026

Swedish Defence Minister Pal Jonson welcomes Brazilian Defence Minister Jose Mucio during a ceremony outside the Government Offices Rosenbad in Stockholm, Sweden, June 4, 2026, ahead of a bilateral meeting.
Swedish Defence Minister Pal Jonson welcomes Brazilian Defence Minister Jose Mucio during a ceremony outside the Government Offices Rosenbad in Stockholm, Sweden, June 4, 2026, ahead of a bilateral meeting. Jonas Ekstromer/TT News Agency via REUTERS Purchase Licensing Rights, opens new tab

STOCKHOLM, June 4 (Reuters) - Brazil has expressed interest in purchasing 20 additional Gripen model E ‌and F fighter jets from Sweden's Saab (SAABb.ST), opens new tab, Swedish Defence Minister Pal Jonson said on Thursday.
The aircraft would be manufactured in Brazil, Jonson told a joint press conference in Stockholm with his Brazilian counterpart, Defence Minister ⁠Jose Mucio.
The Reuters Inside Track newsletter is your essential guide during the World Cup. Sign up here.
Brazil in 2014 agreed to buy 36 Gripen fighter jets, and in 2023 Brazil's Embraer SA (EMBJ3.SA), opens new tab and Saab launched a production line in Brazil for the aircraft, with the South American country saying it may place more orders.

The first jets of the original deal have already been delivered and the remainder are expected to ‌be ⁠handed over by 2027.
On Thursday, Jonson and Mucio signed a declaration of intent to deepen the defence cooperation between the two countries, the Swedish minister told reporters.
"Brazil expresses an interest in ⁠going beyond the 36 Gripen... and purchasing an additional 20 Gripens," Jonson added.


Saab would also set up a research and ⁠development unit in Brazil as part of the deeper collaboration, he added.
During Mucio's visit to Sweden, Saab ⁠showcased its first Gripen F, a two-seat version of the jet developed for Brazil.
 
Last edited:
Billie Fynn launched a broadside as well...



https://billieflynn.com/dangerous-heresy/
Strange conclusions from either war tbh.

Yes, Ukraine has shown that no air dominance comes without stealth; still, a wast majority of aircraft sorties goes without ever touching or barely skirting hostile airspace.
The disconnect from reality in this part is astounding, it should click something when the most successful fighter aircraft of the war is a single bloody light transport plane with a strapped gun.

No, Iran didn't show 4th gen aircraft are deathtraps. 1(One) 1990s 4th gen aircraft was shot down too deep within Iran, one 5th gen aircraft was damaged just close enough make an emergency landing right outside of Iran.

On the other side, yes, one yak-130(LIFT) was ambushed in the air over Iran. Two su-24mks were shot down by non-stealth CAP. From the very first strike of this war to the end and beyond, most sorties didn't even touch hostile airspace.
 
Ukraine Deal Could Spark New Wave Of Gripen Orders

Saab faces a bow wave of potential orders for more than 50 additional JAS-39E/F Gripen fighters as sales negotiations advance with Ukraine and Brazil.

Ukraine is in final negotiations to acquire a first batch of 20 E/Fs with funding from European loans, while Brazil has raised the prospect of acquiring 20 more to top off the 36 it has on order.
 
The Gripen was developed as a very lightweight fighter with a design that prioritised minimising maintenance needs and operational costs, which allows operators to field fleets more than twice as large for a similar cost than if fielding higher maintenance heavier fighter types such as F-35s or F-15s. The aircraft is prized for the ease at which it can be sustained at very high availability rates, as most clearly seen in the Royal Thai Air Force."

Military "Sputnik" Watch Magazine.

The mixed fleet seems to be picking up steam though. We will see.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f-35-gripen-saab-lockheed-martin-canadian-armed-forces-9.7225549
Thought this was interesting:
"A government source said there has been "some resistance" within the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) to the project, while industry sources say the military does not view the GlobalEye as the best available radar plane."
 
The aircraft is prized for the ease at which it can be sustained at very high availability rates, as most clearly seen in the Royal Thai Air Force."
Note also in that linked article the key thing: Thailand wanted the F-35 and only approached Saab after being told they would not be authorised to get the F-35.

I would also question you implication that the Gripen E/F has shown that it can be sustained at very high availability rates... in the Royal Thai Air Force. I am curious as to how that can be given the RTAF has yet to receive any Gripen E/Fs. They fly the earlier Gripen C/D. Moreover, from what I understand, these are heavily supported by the industrial base back in Sweden to keep operational. Other than O-level maintenance, I don't believe there is much done in Thailand.
 
Strange conclusions from either war tbh.

Yes, Ukraine has shown that no air dominance comes without stealth; still, a wast majority of aircraft sorties goes without ever touching or barely skirting hostile airspace.
The disconnect from reality in this part is astounding, it should click something when the most successful fighter aircraft of the war is a single bloody light transport plane with a strapped gun.

No, Iran didn't show 4th gen aircraft are deathtraps. 1(One) 1990s 4th gen aircraft was shot down too deep within Iran, one 5th gen aircraft was damaged just close enough make an emergency landing right outside of Iran.

On the other side, yes, one yak-130(LIFT) was ambushed in the air over Iran. Two su-24mks were shot down by non-stealth CAP. From the very first strike of this war to the end and beyond, most sorties didn't even touch hostile airspace.
there is also another problem, no country aircraft is immune from long range UAVs on both sides.
1782580204862.png
 
I wonder whether armament is in, or it's to be structured separately.
Normal packages don't make too much sense when you operate off production line, and potentially look at using the normal meteor allocation in your very first sortie...
 

Gripen E Fighters Officially Ordered By Ukraine​

https://www.twz.com/air/gripen-e-fighters-officially-ordered-by-ukraine
Swedish defense firm Saab announced today that it had signed a contract to provide 16 Gripen E fighters to Ukraine. Once they arrive in the country, the jets will likely provide Ukraine with its most capable combat aircraft, and the development comes after Stockholm agreed to donate up to 16 of the previous-generation Gripen C/Ds to Ukraine. Handover of the Gripen C/Ds in Ukraine is slated to take place in early 2027, while the Gripen Es are scheduled for delivery starting in 2029.
The order is valued at around SEK 24.6 billion (approximately $2.5 billion) and will be booked in the third quarter of this year.

$2,4B for 16 airfame is quite a high price:
Spares, groundcrew equipment, aircrew and groundcrew training materiel and courses. Possibly some integration work to perform with existing forces too. May also include interfacing satellite services...
 
But how many SH could they have had for that price? Think that today, it's the number of airframe that could really make a difference even at a medium performance level.

I count 40% more airframe within the same budget.
 
But how many SH could they have had for that price? Think that today, it's the number of airframe that could really make a difference even at a medium performance level.

I count 40% more airframe within the same budget.
Hard to tell what difference a slowest aircraft in generation, without meteor, would make. Worst possible theater for it.
AIM-174 is an enabler when you have altitude. Otherwise, it's dead weight.
Furthermore, SH appears to be a single worst jet in us hand for drone and LACM hunting. Which is suboptimal.
There are 16 new Gripen E/F and 16 SH Gripen C/D, probably coming with a decent amount of armament. Performant weapons tend to be quite costly.
https://thedefensewatch.com/militar...teor-missile-unit-cost-marks-major-benchmark/
I wonder what's the point to "come with weapons" in this case. It's a country in a war, normal packages(even those assumed big ones) will last months, maybe.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom