Saab Gripen E/F (Gripen NG)

NMaude said:
If New Zealand government decides to reverse Helen Clarke's bit of high-treason when she disbanded the RNZAF's air-combat wing 2002 and restore I have no doubt that the Griffen E/F would be at the top of the list.
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Funny how despite it being over 20years since then, including two conservative ones, there has been no effort to reverse. Maybe this is because it wasn't treason but rather, considered, sensible policy generally supported in New Zealand.
 
Ozair said:
There is zero chance of that happening. With what NZ has to afford over the next 20 years including replacement of the ANZACs, new transport aircraft to replace the 757, new naval helicopters, long range drones etc per the 2025 capability plan there is no money to return to manned fighter aviation.
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And no need
 
Embedded AI agent tested successfully in BVR fight 3 times:

During the flights, Gripen E successfully handed over control of the aircraft to Centaur, which autonomously performed complex maneuvers in a BVR combat environment* and gave the pilot instructions to fire.

– This is an important milestone that demonstrates Saab's technologically advanced capabilities. We have in a short time both integrated and successfully test-flown Helsing's AI in Gripen E, which is proof of the rapid increase in capabilities we can offer our customers. We look forward to continuing to develop and explore how we can use this and other AI agents in our combat aircraft. [...]

Gripen E's unique design means it can fly with the AI software fully integrated and onboard the aircraft, meaning that flight tests are not limited to being carried out at military test sites or with experimental aircraft.

– We explore and blur the boundaries between today and the future. With software, it is no longer a question of fighter aircraft generations, but rather of the speed of development, says Peter Nilsson.

The third flight, conducted on the 3rd of June, focused specifically on the performance of the Centaur, pitting it against a real Gripen D aircraft in a series of dynamic BVR* scenarios with real-time data integration, using sensor data to track the target aircraft.
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https://news.cision.com/se/saab/r/saab-genomfor-forsta-flygningarna-med-ai-i-gripen-e,c4162640
Notice that this would compare to the Old SAGE system maneuvring F-86D, F-94, F-89 and others Grandma airframe. The accent being put on Dogfighting AI agent by US DoD has always been to demonstrate that if it can do that, it will certainly do all the other more pertinent things...
 
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Peru order of 24 Gripen E to replace their Mig-29 and Mirage 2000 is to be formally signed on the 10th of July for $3.5bn beating out Rafale F4 and F-16 Block 70 in the procurement competition. Saab won by promising the order could be delivered within 24 months of contract signature rather than the 60 months of F16/Rafale and being a third cheaper than either of its competitors. Peru has stipulated that at least two aircraft must be delivered by July 23, 2026 for its air force day celebration
 
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WatcherZero said:
Peru order of 24 Gripen E to replace their Mig-29 and Mirage 2000 is to be formally signed on the 10th of July for $3.5bn beating out Rafale F4 and F-16 Block 70 in the procurement competition. Saab won by promising the order could be delivered within 24 months of contract signature rather than the 60 months of F16/Rafale and being a third cheaper than either of its competitors. Peru has stipulated that at least two aircraft must be delivered by July 23, 2026 for its air force day celebration
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The whole order delivered in 24 months or just the first two aircraft?

They won't be getting those from the Brazilian line in that timeframe so the Swedish Air Force will have to give up their first deliveries to make this happen.

Not sure an air force selecting an aircraft based on its delivery timeframe over capability or potentially cost is the right pathway forward.
 
Scott Kenny said:
If your existing fighters are at the ragged edge of their lifespans you might prefer delivery timeframe more than cost.
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Peru have been looking for 10+ years but I doubt the Mirages are in that poor shape that an extra couple of years would have made a significant difference. Given the difficulties to date getting the Gripen E into service I suspect even the 24 month timeframe is incredibly aggressive and may not be achievable.
 
BlackBat242 said:
First 2 in 12 months (must be delivered by 23 July 2026) - the rest within another year (mid-2027).
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A strange requirement then. I understand the need to "show off" the aircraft at a national parade but for an Air Force the size of Peru's to induct 24 new fighters in that time period would be close to unprecedented.
 
Wasn't French Rafale sale to Egypt similar in that demand to have early samples delivered?

Early examples might be necessary to insure the new type integration into Peruvian air force systems, presently based around compatibility with French and Russian hardware.
 
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TomcatViP said:
Wasn't French Rafale sale to Egypt similar in that demand to have early samples delivered?
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Yes looks like a pretty similar situation but Egypt had an even tighter timeframe.
TomcatViP said:
Early examples might be necessary to insure the new type integration into Peruvian air force systems, presently based around compatibility with French and Russian hardware.
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Not sure if they bother with the Russian and French equipment. With maybe 11 Mirage 2000s and, if wiki is correct, 6 Mig-29s then just bin the lot, go direct to the Gripens and use it as an opportunity to start over. Off topic a bit but not sure whether the Gripens will also replace the Su-25s or whether the Su-25s will continue on. If they are also going would be great if someone picked those Su-25s up and donated them to Ukraine.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Peru more or less retires most of those 40+ planes and relies on a fleet of just 24 Gripens as their manned fixed wing warplanes. It would make logistics easier if they didn't have to have multiple sources i.e America, French and Soviet/Russian .

They largely resolved their borders with Chile and Ecuador, with remaining issues more likely to be addressed through dialogue.
 
helmutkohl said:
I wouldn't be surprised if Peru more or less retires most of those 40+ planes and relies on a fleet of just 24 Gripens as their manned fixed wing warplanes. It would make logistics easier if they didn't have to have multiple sources i.e America, French and Soviet/Russian .

They largely resolved their borders with Chile and Ecuador, with remaining issues more likely to be addressed through dialogue.
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Agree, looking at their A-37 fleet from this article in 2017 they were only upgrading seven aircraft so potentially that 40+ aircraft is actually a lot closer to 30 and probably less than 20 serviceable at any one time.
 
Please remember that with low wages and a lower cost economy, optimizing around an airframe that can do it all isn't really drastically cost effective.
You can have multiple different platforms in service and bank on the availability of used parts and augmented number of maintenance personnel to sustain a platform much longer than in US or European standards for a similar effect.
People look at the oldest platforms like the A-37 as if they were still in the US, but you can generate as many sorties as needed with a mass of trained maintainers given that personnel retention is usually quite high and cost comparatively lower. It only depends on the availability of Spare part and the compatibility of airframe systems.

(that's why I always says that raising the cost of employment to employers is absolutely unpatriotic)
 
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TomcatViP said:
You can have multiple different platforms in service and bank on the availability of used parts and augmented number of maintenance personnel to sustain a platform much longer than in US or European standards for a similar effect.
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In regards to Peru its' airforce flew F-86s till 1979 and IIRC Venezuela flew theirs much longer into the 1990s or maybe later as they couldn't afford to replace them (Talk about desperate).
 
Ozair said:
Yes looks like a pretty similar situation but Egypt had an even tighter timeframe.

Not sure if they bother with the Russian and French equipment. With maybe 11 Mirage 2000s and, if wiki is correct, 6 Mig-29s then just bin the lot, go direct to the Gripens and use it as an opportunity to start over. Off topic a bit but not sure whether the Gripens will also replace the Su-25s or whether the Su-25s will continue on. If they are also going would be great if someone picked those Su-25s up and donated them to Ukraine.
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That's quite debatable, pass a cold beverage and let's get to it. *cracks knuckles*

On the one hand, Su-25s do a very different job than Gripens. They're heavy ground-attack, not air policing, CAP, or most multirole work.

On the other hand, Peru has mostly settled their need for a heavy ground-attack plane. And getting Su-25s out of service would save a good chunk of money.

And on the gripping hand, spare parts for Su-25s are just about unobtainium right now, so you'd be best off ordering more Gripens (or seeing if the Yanks will finally part with A-10s) and sending your Su-25s to Ukraine.
 
vlamgat said:
Would be nice to see EU A8 (Czechia, Slovakia etc) do a group buy of Gripen Es

Build a common pool they can draw from, get economies of scale on maintenance etc
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That doesn't make a lot of sense. The Czechs have ordered F-35 and Slovakia is receiving new F-16V. Hungary is doubling down on Gripen C, Poland is already buying everything they can get their hands on and never a serious Gripen contender.
 
Scott Kenny said:
That's quite debatable, pass a cold beverage and let's get to it. *cracks knuckles*

On the one hand, Su-25s do a very different job than Gripens. They're heavy ground-attack, not air policing, CAP, or most multirole work.

On the other hand, Peru has mostly settled their need for a heavy ground-attack plane. And getting Su-25s out of service would save a good chunk of money.

And on the gripping hand, spare parts for Su-25s are just about unobtainium right now, so you'd be best off ordering more Gripens (or seeing if the Yanks will finally part with A-10s) and sending your Su-25s to Ukraine.
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If I was putting money on it then for sure the Su-25s will be going away, it just makes so much sense to standardise on one type. Peru hasn't given military aid to Ukraine yet so perhaps this could be their first foray in but I suspect it will be easier to sell them to another nation who can then make the transfer, if Ukraine even wants more Su-25s.
 
Ozair said:
If I was putting money on it then for sure the Su-25s will be going away, it just makes so much sense to standardise on one type. Peru hasn't given military aid to Ukraine yet so perhaps this could be their first foray in but I suspect it will be easier to sell them to another nation who can then make the transfer, if Ukraine even wants more Su-25s.
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That's certainly where I'm leaning.
 
Ainen said:
They didn't do it during Biden term, when voluntary help was almost extortioned.
I wouldn't bet on them being so anxious to jump onto defeated train now of all times.
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Guess I do need to clarify that.

I don't have any idea on whether Peru would send their Su-25s to Ukraine. Possibly they're in bad enough shape that all they're good for is spare parts.

What I was agreeing with was Peru retiring all their Su-25s and running a pure Gripen force.
 
That would be for Peru to sort out for Ukraine if they are going to send their Su-25s there anyway, I guess that Peru running a pure Gripen force would be the right thing to do.
 
Ozair said:
That doesn't make a lot of sense. The Czechs have ordered F-35 and Slovakia is receiving new F-16V. Hungary is doubling down on Gripen C, Poland is already buying everything they can get their hands on and never a serious Gripen contender.
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Indeed
It’s not going to happen
But it’s a nice example of a bunch of unnecessarily expensive, penny packet national forces that lack the size to move the needle
 
vlamgat said:
Indeed
It’s not going to happen
But it’s a nice example of a bunch of unnecessarily expensive, penny packet national forces that lack the size to move the needle
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In many way it is actually the opposite. For the Czechs they are buying into a NATO standard capability, same for Poland, and similar for the Slovakians where F-16 will still be an operational aircraft within NATO for many years (mostly US operated). Until Sweden joined NATO the Gripen was NATO compatible but it wasn't really NATO standard.
 

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