Royal Navy Type 45 ("D" Class) Destroyer Daring Class concepts

timmymagic said:
There was at least one T45 deployment in the early days that had 2 Lynx onboard. I remember the photos of the hangar...there was more room than you'd think with them in.
Click to expand...
Ah-ha!
So 1) it is possible and 2) since the size of the hangar fits the size of the flight deck, and they are both very large, there an optical illusion that distorts size perception.
 
Martes said:
Ah-ha!
So 1) it is possible and 2) since the size of the hangar fits the size of the flight deck, and they are both very large, there an optical illusion that distorts size perception.
Click to expand...

Absolutely possible, and trialed. But not routinely done now.
 
Ainen said:
UK, as things stand, isn't exactly big operator neither for aster series
Click to expand...

Type 45: 48 A50 * 6 = 288 Aster 30 cells.

Now of course we won't be a big Aster 15 operator as we've had all of ours rebuilt as Aster 30, because we've standardized on CAMM for short range air defence. So looking at CAMM cells as an Aster 15 equivalent:

Type 45: 3+3x 24 CAMM
Type 23: 4x 32 CAMM (to be retired)
Type 26: 0+8x 48 CAMM
Type 31: 0+5x ? CAMM

= 200 (+ 200 + ?) CAMM cells

France:

CdeG: 1x 48 A43
Forbin: 2x 48 A50
Aquitaine: 4x 16 A43
Bretagne: 2x 16 A50
Alsace: 2x 32 A50
Amiral Ronarc'h: 1+4x 16 A50

= 112 x A43 cells for Aster 15
192 (+64) x A50 cells for Aster 15 or 30

Italy:
Cavour: 1x 32 A43
Trieste: 1x FFBNW 16 A50
DDX: 0+2x 48 A50
Orrizonte: 2x 48 A50
Bergamini: 10x 16 A50
Thaon di Revel:
Full: 1+2x 16 A50
Light+: 1+1x 16 A50
Light: 2x FFBNW 16 A50 (to refit to full)

= 32x A43 for Aster 15
288 (+128 + FFBNW 16) A50 for Aster 15 or 30

So the UK (488) clearly outstrips France (368) and narrowly outstrips Italy (474) for deployed + planned AAW cells, and likely outstrips both for deployed + planned Aster 30 given the UK uses only Aster 30 in A50, while France and Italy mix Aster 15 and 30.


Ainen said:
nor for VLS tomahawks.
Click to expand...

Hardly an issue when we chose to deploy Tomahawk from subs, not from surface combatants. And no Tomahawk compatible VLS cells until Type 26 enters service rather limits the number we could have at sea.
 
Last edited:
DWG said:
So the UK (488) clearly outstrips France (368) and narrowly outstrips Italy (474) for deployed + planned AAW cells, and likely outstrips both for deployed + planned Aster 30 given the UK uses only Aster 30 in A50, while France and Italy mix Aster 15 and 30.
Click to expand...
There are SAMP/T batteries though, which form same missile pool.
On camm, yes, I guess that was the point.

Speaking of unification: had the french ever actually deployed or fired mica-vl from their ships?
 
Ainen said:
There are SAMP/T batteries though, which form same missile pool.
On camm, yes, I guess that was the point.

Speaking of unification: had the french ever actually deployed or fired mica-vl from their ships?
Click to expand...

Pretty sure Mica VL has mainly been an export thing, because they can’t quad pack the missile, it’s just objectively worse than say using Aster 15
 
Ainen said:
There are SAMP/T batteries though, which form same missile pool.
On camm, yes, I guess that was the point.

Speaking of unification: had the french ever actually deployed or fired mica-vl from their ships?
Click to expand...

Nope. SAMP/T Aster 30 Block 1 are not compatible with Sylver/PAAMS on naval vessels....yet.

Ironically, after Qatar, the UK will be the first nation to use Aster 30 Block 1 on naval vessels....and they don't use SAMP/T....

French have shown zero interest in MICA on ships....suspect this was because they didn't want to cannibalise Aster sales...

DWG said:
So the UK (488) clearly outstrips France (368) and narrowly outstrips Italy (474) for deployed + planned AAW cells, and likely outstrips both for deployed + planned Aster 30 given the UK uses only Aster 30 in A50, while France and Italy mix Aster 15 and 30.
Click to expand...

UK still uses Aster 15, they've not all been converted to Aster 30 yet...tbh its not clear yet if the entire Aster 30 stockpile will be upgraded to Block I either...

We've also got 6 Type 23...not 4...

To be frank I suspect the UK's holdings of Aster either do, or did until recently, exceed both France and Italy's total stockpiles combined...

Both Italy and France were, and to date are, extremely parsimonious when it comes to complex weapons buys...(see Storm Shadow, Meteor, GMLRS, WVR AAM, ATGM and Torpedoes as examples)...the UK, particularly when the Aster orders went in absolutely was not...
 
timmymagic said:
French have shown zero interest in MICA on ships....suspect this was because they didn't want to cannibalise Aster sales...
Click to expand...
My inner theory is most such weird situations around the world come to lack of money/priorities.
B/c french/Italian ships do indeed look weird from ammo point of view. One effective engagement, ideally (especially for French, which have a very ... optimistic take on what passes as a CIWS).
 
What might the electronics (ESM, ECM, etc.) fit for the export frigate variant be? Thanks in advance.

=============

The story I have for MICA-VL is that it was originally a study requested by the ROCN to directly use air-launched MICA-EM with shipboard VLS as both an early attempt to replace the Sea Chaparral launcher on the Kang Ding class frigates and hopefully a cheaper & politically-convenient (since the missile is already in use by ROCAF Mirages, techincally-speaking nothing new is being asked for) alternative to buying the Aster-15. It was later deemed as not offering enough advantage for the latter concerns, but France continued the development just in case other countries might become interested.
 
Last edited:
Martes said:
Ah-ha!
So 1) it is possible and 2) since the size of the hangar fits the size of the flight deck, and they are both very large, there an optical illusion that distorts size perception.
Click to expand...

Similar to how T45's enormous bridge windows distort peoples perceptions of just ho huge they are....

It's only when you see a Wildcat on a T45 deck that you realise...

1772618685096.png

At the link below there is an image of 2 Lynx Mk.8 inside a T45 hangar...little difference in practice with Wildcat.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/xpn80z/two_aw159_wildcat_helicopters_inside_the_hangar
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/xpn80z/two_aw159_wildcat_helicopters_inside_the_hangar/


Although CGI these give an idea of hangar size, and the size of the adjacent boat bays.

https://dmc_rulez.artstation.com/projects/g2JXrx

It should be noted that although the deck is 'Chinook capable'...I've never seen any imagery of a Chinook landing on....I suspect (although I may be wrong) that they've never trialed it and Chinook isn't actually cleared...).
 
Last edited:
Martes said:
Ah-ha!
So 1) it is possible and 2) since the size of the hangar fits the size of the flight deck, and they are both very large, there an optical illusion that distorts size perception.
Click to expand...

Some more...including 3 Lynx onboard simultaneously...and in picture 3 a Wildcat and Lynx in the hangar (Wildcat on left). second tweet in thread has Merlin Crowsnest onboard.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2031877687824855247
View: https://x.com/Gabriel64869839/status/2031877687824855247
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom