Royal Navy Type 26 Frigate

[timmymagic]

Is that builder's sea trials, or delivery to the RN?

Sea trials

 

[timmymagic]

Actually it is a Polish Brochure (Paper) which is translated into English by Google Lens, here is the original version. I believed that someone took a photo of this brochure from MSPO 2026.
View attachment 823842

That explains it.. surprised MBDA haven't got it up on their website they did a revamp recently.

Can you repost over on the Asraam/Camm thread with the explanation about translation please?

 

[lucis1225]

That explains it.. surprised MBDA haven't got it up on their website they did a revamp recently

The Polish media reported that the development of CAMM-MR is progressing very slowly, even though the qualification tests (I believed these tests refer to the photo on the bottom left of the brochure) were completed around 20 months ago.

 

[timmymagic]

The Polish media reported that the development of CAMM-MR is progressing very slowly, even though the qualification tests (I believed these tests refer to the photo on the bottom left of the brochure) were completed around 20 months ago.

IF thats a real photo (rather than CGI) then....

1) - I'm really surprised MBDA haven't made a song and dance about it, even though it would just be a test article being ejected...
2) - It's surprising that they're using circular canisters (even though the circular canisters are sat within the Mk.41 dual pack at sea) on a land mount as its a whole lot easier to store, transport, lift and mount rectangular units. IF its real it could just be an initial test with later canisters to be mounted in a production rectangular box for ground launch at least. A lot of the environment protection is in the 'box' section.
3) - Single test stands have been used previously on these trials for CAMM/CAMM-ER, IF they're using iLauncher it would tend to imply that they've done single cell test shots before.
4) - 8 x CAMM-MR on iLauncher is a nice capability...be interesting to see if combinations of CAMM/CAMM-ER/CAMM-MR can be combined, or if a dedicated CAMM-MR launcher is necessary.

As to progress....thats more than we thought....but most of the CAMM elements are already well understood and tested (seeker, data link, warhead, guidance etc.). So once you've got the cold launch trials out of the way its mainly about the turnover, transition to guidance, the rocket motor and the missile envelope I'd expect...

 

[Yellow Palace]

For what it's worth, I went back to look at old official statements and HMS Glasgow was originally scheduled* to be delivered in "summer 2025" after completing builders' trials.

For what it's worth the original schedule back in the days of Global Combat Ship called for one ship to be delivered every year from 2021 to 2034, and was calculated down to the day - including launch dates. This caused some amusement amongst anyone who actually looked at the build schedule.

 

[zen]

Cheaper and easier to produced a sealed tubular cannister filled with inert gas. Square, even with rounded corners has both production cost issues and sealing issues. Resolving those add yet more cost.

A tube is easier to fit inside existing silo types (Mk41 and Sylver).

It's also lighter, which might be a significant driver if it's to be i-launcher compatible.

 

[timmymagic]

Cheaper and easier to produced a sealed tubular cannister filled with inert gas. Square, even with rounded corners has both production cost issues and sealing issues. Resolving those add yet more cost.

What I mean is a rectangular box around the circular tube, on the CAMM/CAMM-ER a lot of environmental protection is there, plus dessicant and self test kit.

 

[lucis1225]

IF thats a real photo (rather than CGI) then....

1) - I'm really surprised MBDA haven't made a song and dance about it, even though it would just be a test article being ejected...
2) - It's surprising that they're using circular canisters (even though the circular canisters are sat within the Mk.41 dual pack at sea) on a land mount as its a whole lot easier to store, transport, lift and mount rectangular units. IF its real it could just be an initial test with later canisters to be mounted in a production rectangular box for ground launch at least. A lot of the environment protection is in the 'box' section.
3) - Single test stands have been used previously on these trials for CAMM/CAMM-ER, IF they're using iLauncher it would tend to imply that they've done single cell test shots before.
4) - 8 x CAMM-MR on iLauncher is a nice capability...be interesting to see if combinations of CAMM/CAMM-ER/CAMM-MR can be combined, or if a dedicated CAMM-MR launcher is necessary.

As to progress....thats more than we thought....but most of the CAMM elements are already well understood and tested (seeker, data link, warhead, guidance etc.). So once you've got the cold launch trials out of the way its mainly about the turnover, transition to guidance, the rocket motor and the missile envelope I'd expect...

Agreed, it is too vague to identify if it is a real photo.
1) No doubt, the ejected acticle, even if it is a real photo, the acticle should be a dummy at the very best.
2) Circular canisters are a surprise, but the Polish media had reported that the land base lanucher will have 8 missiles per vehicle just like the rests a few years ago, so this is not a surprise to me.
3) Agree, this is what a proper development process should be.
4) In 2), the Polish media had reported that 8 cells for CAMM-MR can be mounted on the same platform, so it should be at least share an common/universal fire control system and transport chassis, possible the erect rack, definitely, we can see from our eyes, not the canisters.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Yes other cold launch systems are available and have long been in use, but they do come with disadvantages, particularly around missile design and the launch canister (the entirety of which becomes a pressure vessel and a lot heavier as a result). SVL is a very elegant engineering solution in comparison.

If you need a 3 gee cold launch off a 10" square plate lofting 500lbs, the internal force required is 1500lbs. A 10" square pusher plate is 100 square inches, so you only need 15psi or so on the pusher plate. 2 Bar absolute pressure inside the canister.

Cold launching something the size of an SM2, with a 25" square pusher plate for SVL? Let's go with the heaviest VLS load in the Mk41, a Tomahawk, at 3500lbs. So 10,500lbs force on the pusher plate, and pusher plate is 625 square inches. 17psi on the pusher plate. 2.2bar absolute.

I'm pretty sure that your standard container strong enough to protect a missile in transport would be strong enough to survive 2 bar ish, so that weight limit for the UK SVL isn't about container strength. It could be about retaining that piston at the end of travel, but that's not required.

Crud, let's scale that all the way up to Trident size. 83" diameter missile weighing 130,000lbs. That's ~5400 square inches pusher area. 390,000lbs force needed. Now you're up to all of 75psi/6 bar absolute on the "pusher plate" and getting into needing a reinforce missile container.