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Royal Navy Blue Envoy missile launcher

uk 75

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With the publication of the Hypersonics, Rockets and Missiles Secret Projects we can now see the shapes of the missiles that the Royal Navy would have had for its large cruiser or cruiser/carrier project in the early 60s.

Unfortunately there seem to be no info on the type of launcher that might have been used. Presumable given the similarity of the US Typhon missile, a launcher of this kind would have been developed for British ships?

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M. A. Rozon

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This would not have been an easily pursued option: It would have required hard currency, a scarce commodity at the time. It is an open question whether or not MDAP between the USA and the UK would have covered it. National internal politics also would have made this difficult (Not made her?) as it has continued to.

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JFC Fuller

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Whilst Talos was an impressive system I think the UK did well to stay away from it. I know people criticise Sea Slug but it was not a bad missile and did the job. In the longer term the Sea Dart had far more utility than Talos and in many ways it (and its associated systems) deserved a lot more development than they got.

As a further to this subject, there was apparently a proposal to rebuild the colony class and later cruisers as single ended Sea Slug ships and I have been looking in vain for an image of said idea. If anybody has any leads I would greatly appreciate it.
 

M. A. Rozon

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Friedman's Postwar Naval Revolution has a simple side elevation/internal general arrangement drawing for such a conversion. If you don't have this book, PM me and I'll see what I can do for you.

If you don't have this book I strongly recommend it. It's focus is from 1945-1955 with the RN being very well covered.

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uk 75

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Friedmans new british cruisers book pps 313-4 helps on blue envoy and seaslug. Launchers would be non traversing rails..5 side by side with 10 to 30 reloads in the seaslug hangar
 

alertken

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Re: Seaslug substitutes

In 1949 US offered Convair RIM-2D Terrier vice Seaslug; rejected, July,51, as adoption “would have a bad effect on UK GW industry” S.R.Twigge, Early Devt.of GW in UK, Harwood, 1993,P.164 plus uncertainty US “would supply” E.J.Grove,Vanguard to Trident, Bodley Head,1987,P121.

1956: USN Bendix RIM-8G Talos was offered; declined, Nassau, Mar.,57 as unsuited for RN ships, and “given the desire not to be dependent on foreign supplies” Grove,P121. Rejected again 1958 in hope inolfactive Slug would find the scent G.Hartcup,The Silent Revolution, Br’ssey,93,P252.

AWA/Whitley lived off Seaslug - 4 ships with 1 twin Mk.1 fire-unit, ’62-88; 4 then had Mk.2. Grove,P286. This was not manufacturing, but 30 years’ sculpture.
 

uk 75

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Sealord my interest here was (too) narrowly on the appearance for modelling and illustrating .(shipbucket). As .F explains blue envoy was only briefly looked at. But that makes this bit of info so useful for whatiffing!
 

JFC Fuller

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uk 75 said:
Sealord my interest here was (too) narrowly on the appearance for modelling and illustrating .(shipbucket). As .F explains blue envoy was only briefly looked at. But that makes this bit of info so useful for whatiffing!

Indeed, in many ways the Blue Envoy consideration was the beginning of NIGS- which itself died.

Ken,

A 30 year sculpture that was not very good when it was completed. They did at least make it solid fuelled in the end. Unfortunately the Counties were limited by the fact they only had one fire channel and no Type 984 3D radar as well.
 

alertken

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Might the reason for declining near-free Terrier or Talos be Blue Slug nuclear-armed SSM, tootled from 1955 till chop, 1962? MoA ignored this very public criticism of the SAM: “effective financial control was exercised at no stage (A) completely sorry story” 1959/60 Commons Public Accounts Committee (S.R.Twigge,Early Devt of GW in UK ’40-60,H’wood,93,P225). That would explain the feebleness of (my previous post) Twigge/Grove reported excuses.
 

JFC Fuller

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Blue Slug offered a theoretically excellent anti-surface weapon, the problems were guidance, which was apparently overcome. And the general inability of the UK to produce usable small nuclear warheads in numbers in this time frame. I suspect that timing was the main reason for rejecting US weapons, in 51 the problems were probably not clear / profound yet and by 1956/7 the ship design process was too far along to allow a change of weapons system in a timely fashion. Let us not forget national pride either. ;)
 

CNH

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Surely Blue Envoy was never considered for the Navy? it would have been far too big, for a start.
 

alertken

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County DDG

My notes have: "RN hoped to fit the SAM aft/Blue Slug SSM forward; 48 Seaslug 2/Blue Slug were planned in 1955 to be in service by end-1960 with nuclear warheads". This is (in part) R.Moore/Illusion,P.128, in turn referenced to D.Brown/G.Moore/Rebuilding,P.37 (which I have not seen). How does this fit with actual County dates/quantities?
 

JFC Fuller

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Ken,

Tha more or less work for the County class but to my mind it is unlikely to be the County class. Double-ended suggests cruiser to me. Grove makes reference to a double ender in Vanguard to Trident and some were certainly designed as part of the post war cruiser effort. I dont have my copy of Rebuilding the Royal Navy at hand at the moment so I can not check but I will when I get the chance.
 
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