Republic F-105 Projects

Hello everyone, only today I discovered that the proposed reconnaissance variant RF-105B was initially ordered but ultimately completed as JF-105Bs.
Please notice an artwork of the RF-10B created by Scott Cullen, as shared on his Instagram.
 
I recall seeing documents in The National Archives, Kew referring to a Spey-engined "F-105K" being proposed around the time that the F-111 was being mooted instead of TSR.2. Also that this aircraft was being marketed to Iran. Did I recall that correctly and does anyone know more?
 
fightingirish said:
Hello everyone, only today I discovered that the proposed reconnaissance variant RF-105B was initially ordered but ultimately completed as JF-105Bs.
Please notice an artwork of the RF-10B created by Scott Cullen, as shared on his Instagram.
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Screenprint attached.
 

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TsrJoe said:
Republic F-105B Thunderchief evaluation for possible RAF. use, 1959

PRO./TNA. AVIA 18/1998 ... https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6119099
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Sadly the dates don't align; this looks more like an evaluation for procurement of off-the-shelf F-105Bs rather than Spey-engined "F-105Ks". I wish I could recall where the reference was stated but I suspect it was in relation to something to do with Iran.

In any case the dates would be later than 1959 (1961 onwards?) and maybe even as late as 1964 if TSR.2 substitution was indeed the intention.

It's a shame since I was at TNA last Wednesday and could have taken a look.
 
Republic's F-105 does appear on comparison charts during GOR.339 evaluation studies (pre OR.343/TSR.2 definition) as an 'off the shelf' type (also NA. A3J, Douglas B-66, Martin B-68 and Bell D.188)

See also
Post #28 ... AP.63-19 studies for Olympus B.01 22R engined F-105D, 1960

Post #36 ... proposal for RR. Spey engined F-105D, 1963 (possible alternative to TSR.2 ?)

I don't recall seeing the 'F-105K' in the files as a TSR.2 substitute post programme contract ? (unsolicitated proposal by Republic ?) il have a look at my notes tho as I might have missed it
 
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TsrJoe said:
See also

Post #36 ... proposal for RR. Spey engined F-105D, 1963 (possible alternative to TSR.2 ?)
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Yes I noted that but no reference to it being related to F-105D unless I missed it. I wonder if "F-105K" was just a UK placeholder for whatever it turned out to be?
 
SOC said:
Pretty sure the J-58 was JT11. I recall seeing the designation JT11D-2 associated with the Blackbird program before.
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J58 was the JT11B. It started as a supersonic turbojet similar to the DeHaviland Gyron but evolved considerably to power the Blackbird.
 
Republic and the F-105 seems like they should have collaborated with Convair and the F-106. The F-105 fit a Vulcan in the nose and it seems like F-106 should have done the same. At a minimum they could have came up with common tails and air brakes for interoperability. Hard to believe the F-105 is quite a bit shorter because the F-105 looks like it should be bigger since its so high off the ground. F-105 has a massive ground clearance on par with larger bombers.
 
elmayerle said:
J58 was the JT11B. It started as a supersonic turbojet similar to the DeHaviland Gyron but evolved considerably to power the Blackbird.
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IIRC that's the one they wanted to stuff in the Vigilante, XF8U-3, B-58, etc.
 
MadRat said:
Republic and the F-105 seems like they should have collaborated with Convair and the F-106. The F-105 fit a Vulcan in the nose and it seems like F-106 should have done the same. At a minimum they could have came up with common tails and air brakes for interoperability. Hard to believe the F-105 is quite a bit shorter because the F-105 looks like it should be bigger since its so high off the ground. F-105 has a massive ground clearance on par with larger bombers.
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The F-105F/G is a foot shorter than the F-106. But that's like trying to combine the P-47 with the P-51.
 
MadRat said:
Republic and the F-105 seems like they should have collaborated with Convair and the F-106. The F-105 fit a Vulcan in the nose and it seems like F-106 should have done the same. At a minimum they could have came up with common tails and air brakes for interoperability. Hard to believe the F-105 is quite a bit shorter because the F-105 looks like it should be bigger since its so high off the ground. F-105 has a massive ground clearance on par with larger bombers.
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The F-106 and other USAF interceptors of that generation didn't have any cannon armament as a matter of choice by the USAF. In retrospect this was a mistake, but it wasn't a failure on Corvair's part.

The two designs really aren't that comparable even though they use the same engine and are of similar weight and size. The F-105 wing was designed for that most dangerous phase of the Thud's envisioned mission where it is flying very low and fast right before lobbing a tactical nuclear bomb at some Soviet armored formation or other suitable target. The F-106 by comparison had to climb quickly and would stay high and fast for its whole flight. If you worked hard enough on it maybe they could have used some common vertical tail and airbrakes and other minor components but generally speaking it really wouldn't have been worth all that effort.
 
hesham said:
Excuse me,I don't understand,was there F-105 VTOL,or just a control system name ?.
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Nor does the seller. They are selling a cockpit arrangement drawing which they believe to be for either (a) an F-105 or (b) an experimental VTOL aircraft.
 
Colonial-Marine said:
The F-106 and other USAF interceptors of that generation didn't have any cannon armament as a matter of choice by the USAF. In retrospect this was a mistake, but it wasn't a failure on Corvair's part.

The two designs really aren't that comparable even though they use the same engine and are of similar weight and size. The F-105 wing was designed for that most dangerous phase of the Thud's envisioned mission where it is flying very low and fast right before lobbing a tactical nuclear bomb at some Soviet armored formation or other suitable target. The F-106 by comparison had to climb quickly and would stay high and fast for its whole flight. If you worked hard enough on it maybe they could have used some common vertical tail and airbrakes and other minor components but generally speaking it really wouldn't have been worth all that effort.
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On second thought, you could combine the two and call it the F-107. ;)
 
hesham said:
Excuse me,I don't understand,was there F-105 VTOL,or just a control system name ?.
Click to expand...
After squinting at the drawing for a good long while, I find that it has the following (per labeling on the drawing) -

A very busy throttle quadrant - (rotated 90 degrees) and from left to right:
- Lift Lever ("HIGH LIFT", "CRUISE", xxxx, "V/STOL")
- Throttle ("HIGH", "FOxxxx"" "INCR", DECR", "IDLE", "OFF")
- Control Friction Lever ( "INCR", "FRICTION", "DECR")
- Engine Pod Control Lever ("MORE THRUST", "INCR", "xxxxxx" "OFF", "ENG POS", "PULL TO EXTEND", "PUSH TO STOW")
- Thrust Vector Lever ("THRUST VECTOR", "VERT FLT", xxxxxx", "HORZ FLT")

Next to the Throttle Quadrant we have:
- Wing Sweep Control ("WINGS", "TAKEOFF LANDING", "AUTO DISC", "HI SPEED CRUISE")
- Wing Sweep Indication ("SWEEP DEG" "0", "10", "20", "30", "40", "50")
- Targeting Controller Handset ("DESIGNATION")
- Targeting Display Selection Dial ("RDR", "HUD, "LLTV")
- Targeting Mode(?) ("RCM"? "CP", "RTK"?)

From this we can gather that the cockpit has controls for:
- A single main engine (or single control for multiple engines)
- Extendable engine pods (Extend/Stow)
- Integrated thrust vector control
- Variable wing sweep

The aircraft has a sophisticated avionics and targeting suite:
- Terrain Following Radar (TFR - on another panel)
- LLTV (Low Light Level TV)
- HUD (Head Up Display)

Looks like the drawing is for the US/FRG AVS project (or something very similar - I could be wrong.) But not a F-105.

left console.jpg
 
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NoBarrelRolls said:
Found another reference to the British and French proposals for the “Thud” in Doug Richardson’s book “Republic F-105 Thunderchief”:

View attachment 803991

Page 44, Chapter “Peacetime and Retirement”
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SNECMA had taken a Pratt J75 licence in 1959, for a bigger Mirage IV that never happened: the B-58 - size Mirage IVB.
 

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