Project Azorian

NERVA

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
1 December 2007
Messages
69
Reaction score
9
MODS - my apologies. Please move this topic to the Other/Military thread. Thank you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thought this might be of interest.

Link:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nukevault/ebb305/index.htm
 
I'd really like to know how much plutonium was loosed into the ocean as a result...
 
The censored portions of the article certainly draw my attention. Some people involved have hinted that more was recovered from K-129 than admitted, and it's intriguing to think that the event had a major impact on the history of the cold war as a result of something that was discovered. As for the Azorian name, it makes me think of Ken Sewell's conspiracy theories about the Soviets sinking the USS Scorpion in retaliation for the initial loss of K-129.
 
Those three documents read fairly dry, but from a historical nerd point of view they are awesome.... ;D
 
CFE said:
The censored portions of the article certainly draw my attention. Some people involved have hinted that more was recovered from K-129 than admitted, and it's intriguing to think that the event had a major impact on the history of the cold war as a result of something that was discovered. As for the Azorian name, it makes me think of Ken Sewell's conspiracy theories about the Soviets sinking the USS Scorpion in retaliation for the initial loss of K-129.

I haven't completely reviewed the information on the website, but from memory (I remember seeing a show on this subject on the History Channel in the U.S.)... the mission to recover K-129 failed because the device used to pull the submarine from the ocean floor broke at 8,000 or 9,000 feet up. K-129 then broke apart... only part of the submarine was recovered, the rest of the submarine fell back to the ocean floor. Does that sound right? I've also heard the rumors that more of the submarine was recovered than the "official" story.
 
http://www.white.at/projectjennifer/

Though I've not seen it, this new documentary is supposedly pretty in depth and covers a lot of new ground. But I've heard plenty of wink wink, nudge nudge we did better then the official story bits as well, one of which was from a friend who had a connection to all of this.

Fascinating whatever the truth!
 
The declassified narrative and the documentary pretty much match what was known beforehand, only forward portion recovered, not very successful, etc. I think CIA is adamant about declassifying the whole thing because, while a technical success - little of value was recovered. Technology was obsolete and coding material would have been also.
 
JMS said:
The declassified narrative and the documentary pretty much match what was known beforehand, only forward portion recovered, not very successful, etc. I think CIA is adamant about declassifying the whole thing because, while a technical success - little of value was recovered. Technology was obsolete and coding material would have been also.
What I wonder, (having read both of the Sewell's books) is that the overall hesitation over fully disclosure had anything to do with possible evidence that (one-wayor-another) explains the K-129s divergence from it's patrol box, position of it's sinking, the fact it was cruising on the surface when it apperantly had a missile malfunction (fire and subsequent explosion) and sank.

Randy
 
I think Cookie Sewell's theories don't make any sense at all. It's an interesting conspiracy theory, but there are many unanswered questions:

- If it was going to strike Hawaii, how comes they were so far off to the North?
- How was the US going to differentiate a USSR nuke from a Chinese nuke?
- How did Sewell know what the patrol box was?
- etc.

If the images of the wreckage at the Azorian documentary are any guide, the cause of the sinking was not a missile exploding, looks more like the after battery to me (but I am no expert). It's also interesting that Glomar Explorer gets a heavily excised section of the History of NSA at the NSA FOIA site, which seems to point to the recovery of crypto material, ergo, the mission would have been a qualified success.
 
JMS said:
If the images of the wreckage at the Azorian documentary are any guide, the cause of the sinking was not a missile exploding, looks more like the after battery to me (but I am no expert). It's also interesting that Glomar Explorer gets a heavily excised section of the History of NSA at the NSA FOIA site, which seems to point to the recovery of crypto material, ergo, the mission would have been a qualified success.

If you read the declassified history between the lines, one of the things you can figure out is that they got crypto material. The discussion of taking material off the ship before it put into port strongly implies that they found something that was very high value and that they wanted to get back to Washington ASAP really hints at that.
 
Ken (NOT Cookie!!) Sewell's book was based on a misreading of a mission by the Trieste III bathyscaphe* in 1972. The Trieste did a dive just 300 miles from Hawaii, coincidentally to 16,400 feet, the same depth as the K-129 wreck. The dive was an attempt to recover the film capsule from the first KH-9 satellite, which had a parachute malfunction. You can read about it here: Underwater Ice Station Zebra The K-129 was located at 40.06N by 179.57E.

As far as what was recovered, I have spoken to several people on the mission. The 34 foot bow section recovered did not have any code materials. I have a partial list of the materials (about 15 pages) and it is mostly listing items like electrical switches, valves, and other pieces of equipment. The interior was a mess, with most of the equipment stripped from its installation point and in a 3 foot deep pile on the deck. Human remains were mixed in to the debris. Materials from several compartments aft were found, indicating a massive pressure wave that swept forward, partially blowing off the bow. One bow compartment was collapsed down to a much smaller length and a few crew remains were found that were reasonable intact and allowed for identifications. At least one torpedo with nuclear warhead, badly mangled, were also recovered.

The failure of the CV arms was a result of being fractured when they were rammed through the seabed under the K-129 target to get under the wreck, which caused the failure of at least three arms and davits supporting the aft section. The seabed was much more compacted than calculated. More weight was offloaded from the Glomar Explorer Lift System to ram the arms and davits into the seabed.The davits had water jets to loosen soil at their tips, but this wasn't enough to make the soil penetration significantly easier. The highest value object recovered was probably was the recovered and mangled torpedo with the nuclear warhead.

* I know, the link below says Trieste II but it was really Trieste III. Trieste II was a modification of the original Trieste with a new float, shaped somewhat like a boat. Trieste III was an all new design, and the original Trieste II was disassembled and the all-new Trieste III given the Trieste II designation as a cover story. Trieste III was originally for "Winterwind" a recovery effort of Soviet missile parts and other "interesting" things on the ocean bottom. But other needs led to its "black" existence being revealed. You can read the whole Trieste history here: "Opening the Great Depths.
The Bathyscaph Trieste and Pioneers of Undersea Exploration
" by Norman Polmar and Lee J. Mathers
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom