Project 138 Heavy Cruiser (Spain, late 1930s)

[Grey Havoc]

(h/t cattalonX)

Those are not related to the Espana class.

Exactly

Project 138 Heavy Cruiser

Un crucero para NUKITA: El proyecto 138 de España

El más ambicioso proyecto de crucero pesado anterior a la 2ª Guerra mundial no nació ni en Inglaterra, ni en Japón ni siquiera en EE.UU. Surgió en un lugar y momento inesperado. En la España devast…

reportedebatalla.wordpress.com

Los cruceros españoles, Bola de Cristal

CRUCEROS ESPAÑOLES Creado por el equipo habitual de la Bola (El gran Manolojones que ha hecho todas las imagenes, el inquisitivo Frank y su aguda capacidad de analisis, el experto Imply apuntador implacable de todo lo que se hace mal y un servido que toma nota y lo cuenta segun lo ve Con el anunc...

foros.aceroyfuego.com

Spanish Heavy Cruiser Project 138

This design of heavy cruiser were born in 1939 by SECN (Sociedad Española de Construcción Naval - Spanish Society for Naval Construction) for Francos new Spanish Armada and feature a well armed well armoured and overall excellent design of cruiser. Based on available weaponry and diplomatic relat...

forum.worldofwarships.eu

 

[ptdockyard]

I have the hull done in 1/1200. Hmmm........

 

[cattalonX]

another variant

 

[Tzoli]

Only 3 variant exists:
Design 138A: 4x3 20,3cm likely German guns
Design 138B: 3x2 30,5cm ex Espana guns
Design 138C: 2x3 28,3cm German Scharnhorst guns

 

[M. A. Rozon]

I have the hull done in 1/1200. Hmmm........

Need.........More...............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Did that sound too desperate or demented? I can never tell. ARRRRR, Matey!)

 

[Antonio]

Design 138B: 3x2 30,5cm ex Espana guns

Specifically from Jaime I (Damaged on July 1939)

Design 138C: 2x3 28,3cm German Scharnhorst guns

Specifically from Gneisenau (Damaged on February 1942)

 

[Dilandu]

Design 138A: 4x3 20,3cm likely German guns
Design 138B: 3x2 30,5cm ex Espana guns
Design 138C: 2x3 28,3cm German Scharnhorst guns

Where I could find any details about their designs, or design process?

 

[Tzoli]

Design 138A: 4x3 20,3cm likely German guns
Design 138B: 3x2 30,5cm ex Espana guns
Design 138C: 2x3 28,3cm German Scharnhorst guns

Where I could find any details about their designs, or design process?

Links in the first post.
In books I don't know. The 3 drawings are certainly from a book similar to the Axis and Neutral Battleships of WW2.

 

[Antonio]

Where I could find any details about their designs, or design process?

There's some info on the links I posted. I'll translate the most relevant to English

 

[Antonio]

Design 138A: 4x3 20,3cm likely German guns

Likely but another possibility could be Spanish manufactured from "Canarias and Baleares" experience?

Source:

https://armada.defensa.gob.es/archivo/rgm/2012/08/cap02.pdf

Pg 239

"Pero como señala Ramírez Gabarrús el programa más ambicioso fue el de la fabricación de las torres y cañones de 203/50 mm de los cruceros pesados del plan de 1926, concretamente los Canarias y Baleares, que tanto juego dieron en la última Guerra Civil española. De las ocho torres que montaron aquellos cruceros, la primera, núm. 1 o A del Canarias era inglesa; las otras siete salieron de los talleres de San Carlos a partir de 1934 y fueron ejemplo y prueba de la capacidad de diseño con que se contaba entonces en cuanto a material artillero de lo más complejo y de los mayores calibres"

I'll try to get more info

 

[Dilandu]

Links in the first post.

Unfortunately those links are more about the possible use of those projects in World of Warships, not about their history or description.

 

[COLDOWN]

Hello. I found what appears to be a new heavy cruiser proposal for Spain.
Perhaps it is of interest, however, it is only an idea (as far as I know), even if the person who mentions it is the most important figure in this country. In September 1925, the King of Spain (Alfonso XIII) told a high official of the Argentine Navy that in his country it was planned to build three heavy cruisers of twelve thousand tons and armed with 230 mm guns (aka 9 inches), since Spain did not have the naval restrictions of the Washington Treaty.
Apparently, for reasons of practicality, the idea was diminished towards the Canarias of 10,000 tons and 203 mm guns.
Edit 2: Copy of the document.

https://imgur.com/EPhsqAK

View: https://i.imgur.com/EPhsqAK.jpg

Edit 1: Maybe the idea was pretty similar to the Designs N°876P, N°1143 and N°1143A.

View: https://i.imgur.com/mCZCmcD.jpg

 

[ptdockyard]

Yeah, I've got to finish my 1/1200 master of this one......

Dave

 

[ptdockyard]

Does anyone have armor stats for these ships?

 

[Toryu]

Does anyone have armor stats for these ships?

 

[ptdockyard]

Thank you!

 

[AMAYA]

Only 3 variant exists:
Design 138A: 4x3 20,3cm likely German guns
Design 138B: 3x2 30,5cm ex Espana guns
Design 138C: 2x3 28,3cm German Scharnhorst guns

Perhaps it is more likely a Spanish-made copy of the 203mm Mark VIII? It's just that I'm not sure whether Spain has the capability to manufacture new triple turrets, and Germany's triple 203mm SK C/34 was also designed at roughly the same time. I think the Spaniards might not have been aware of their existence.

 

[Tzoli]

Italy offered cruiser designs for Spain so it could be Italian guns as well

 

[AMAYA]

Sounds like a good choice—and the secondary guns did indeed choose Italian weapons. But why didn't the Spanish choose their own 120mm Mark F? As far as I know, the Spanish version of the Vittorio Veneto-class battleships could have done so.

 

[Tzoli]

I do not know. Limited production capabilites?

 

[AMAYA]

I have recently been studying the Spanish Navy's expansion plans during the interwar period and World War II, and Project 138, as a kind of super-Washington cruiser, naturally caught my attention.However, I can't find sufficiently clear drawings on the Internet, which makes it difficult for me to obtain some information I want.For example, I noticed that various introductions mention that this cruiser would be equipped with four 75mm guns, but I couldn't find them on any of the drawings.So I have to guess whether they are external guns, mounted on the top of the B and X turrets.
Whether my guess is correct or not, I hope to obtain more relevant information!Does anyone on this forum have sufficiently clear blueprints? Or possess relevant publications? Thank you very much for your help!
I have attached my current set of drawings at the end, as you can see, they are very unclear.

 

[AndyKru]

17500

 

[Toryu]

I have recently been studying the Spanish Navy's expansion plans during the interwar period and World War II, and Project 138, as a kind of super-Washington cruiser, naturally caught my attention.However, I can't find sufficiently clear drawings on the Internet, which makes it difficult for me to obtain some information I want.For example, I noticed that various introductions mention that this cruiser would be equipped with four 75mm guns, but I couldn't find them on any of the drawings.So I have to guess whether they are external guns, mounted on the top of the B and X turrets.
Whether my guess is correct or not, I hope to obtain more relevant information!Does anyone on this forum have sufficiently clear blueprints? Or possess relevant publications? Thank you very much for your help!
I have attached my current set of drawings at the end, as you can see, they are very unclear.
View attachment 809667

According to the plans, this cruiser carried marines. I think the four 75mm cannons are landing cannons.

Un saludo.