Polish Air Crash

Bailey

Bailey

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I would like to offer my deepest condolences to our Polish members and the Polish people for their tragic loss.

Regards Bailey.
 
They included Aleksander Szczyglo, the head of the National Security Office; Jerzy Szmajdzinski, the deputy parliament speaker; Andrzej Kremer, the deputy foreign minister; and Gen. Franciszek Gagor, the army chief of staff, according to the party. The party also said that Slawomir Skrzypek, head of the National Bank of Poland, was killed.

"The entire top military brass, including the chief of defense and all the services, were on the plane," said Tomas Valasek, of the Center for European Reform.

Wow. That is pretty devastating.... :(
 
deep condolences from Russia...
 
it so a bizarre tragedy
They were on their way to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

my deepest condolences to Victims familys
 
What a shocking piece of news. I feel for the Polish people at this time, and pray that the country will not vacillate and go through another dark phase. Having so many officials travel at once in one single aircraft is bad enough, but when it's an old, badly maintained Tu-154, it's foolish. Not to mention the fact that whoever might dream of toppling the regime could find a golden opportunity in sabotaging such an aircraft and getting rid at once of the president, his closest advisers, his secretary of defense and so forth.
 
I first read about this here , then went and checked the online news ...wow , shocking indeed , RIP to the victims, and condoleances to the Polish people. :(

Some news reports say it was foggy at the airport, and the pilot didnt wanted to divert...
 
http://www.thedailymaverick.co.za/article/2010-04-10-analysis-the-cruel-irony-behind-polish-president-kaczynskis-death

The plane, a Tupolev Tu-154, was an old Soviet craft designed in the mid-1960s. Polish officials have repeatedly called for the country’s aging air fleet to be replaced. Former prime minister Leszek Miller, himself a survivor of a helicopter crash seven years ago, told the media that for years he had been predicting such a disaster would happen. “I once said that we will one day meet in a funeral procession, and that is when we will take the decision to replace the aircraft fleet,” he said.
 
Stargazer2006 said:
What a shocking piece of news. I feel for the Polish people at this time, and pray that the country will not vacillate and go through another dark phase. Having so many officials travel at once in one single aircraft is bad enough, but when it's an old, badly maintained Tu-154, it's foolish. Not to mention the fact that whoever might dream of toppling the regime could find a golden opportunity in sabotaging such an aircraft and getting rid at once of the president, his closest advisers, his secretary of defense and so forth.
Click to expand...

Exactly my thoughts (pretty much). Lets see if it's true that the pilot got the suggestion to land in Belarus and rejected it. Have they found the "black" box yet?

One comfort for Poland is that the Government will still function since they still have the Prime Minister and a cabinet.

My condolences to the Polish people. :'(
 
Orionblamblam said:
http://www.thedailymaverick.co.za/article/2010-04-10-analysis-the-cruel-irony-behind-polish-president-kaczynskis-death

The plane, a Tupolev Tu-154, was an old Soviet craft designed in the mid-1960s. Polish officials have repeatedly called for the country’s aging air fleet to be replaced. Former prime minister Leszek Miller, himself a survivor of a helicopter crash seven years ago, told the media that for years he had been predicting such a disaster would happen. “I once said that we will one day meet in a funeral procession, and that is when we will take the decision to replace the aircraft fleet,” he said.
Click to expand...
I can't get why the presidential aircraft hadn't been replaced, considering that the Polish economy has gone well before the global financial crisis.

The only plane which is over 20 years I'd be willing and knowingly step inside for a flight would be a DC-3 that has been maintained.
 
Hammer Birchgrove said:
The only plane which is over 20 years I'd be willing and knowingly step inside for a flight would be a DC-3 that has been maintained.
Click to expand...

Many of the airframes still flown today by C-135 pilots were built in the late 1950s and still serve their purpose flawlessly and without any casualties. The same goes for Grumman Intruders. As for civilian aircraft, the TriStars are more than 30 years old, and many Boeing 747s too. This doesn't make them scary to fly in. It's more a case of how well a plane is maintained and upgraded than how old it is, really. The DC-3 is indeed a sturdy aircraft! DC-3s are still flying in the Republic of Congo, but that's because they were previously in the hands of South African owners that had maintained them well. Now after 10 years of flying in the Congo area I wouldn't risk to entrust my life with any of them considering the lesser standards and limited means of the area.
 
http://tv.repubblica.it/copertina/i-dubbi-sull-incidente/45262?video

in on-line version of italian paper Repubblica, about this aerial incident, they speak about error of pilot for fog and possible bad condition of airplane in question . ::)

Watching more documentaries like "Mayday" and "Seconds from Disaster" , any single component of an airplane must be controlled and must be perfectly in fuction, because any single damaged component can be reason of a tragedy ! ::)
 
I'm Polish, thank you for the condolences. When I learnt of it this morning I thought at first it was some bad joke. Even though I disliked the president for his strongly conservative views, I felt like crying.
Foolish is a subtle word for those who had decided to put so many prominent political figures and top army brass, including the commander of the Polish Air Force, on one board, as not long ago a Polish CASA C-235 crashed killing a few dozen top Air Force officers in the north of Poland. The CASA case shows that, indeed, how old an aircraft is-this Tupolev was 20-30 years old, but only a year after a major rehaul-does not matter as much as how well it is maintained. The Tu-154s have enjoyed a very good opinion with Polish pilots, being simple but very reliable.
Reports indicate that, most likely, the captain of the plane is to blame: instead of diverting to Moscow or Minsk, as advised by the air traffic control, he must have thought that his flying skills would've overcome the fog-caused 500m visibility and lack of ILS beacons on the military airfield in Smolensk where he was supposed to land.
 
There was three failed attemps to landing , fourth attemps fatal as we have watched by News !
 
Stargazer2006 said:
Hammer Birchgrove said:
The only plane which is over 20 years I'd be willing and knowingly step inside for a flight would be a DC-3 that has been maintained.
Click to expand...

Many of the airframes still flown today by C-135 pilots were built in the late 1950s and still serve their purpose flawlessly and without any casualties. The same goes for Grumman Intruders. As for civilian aircraft, the TriStars are more than 30 years old, and many Boeing 747s too. This doesn't make them scary to fly in. It's more a case of how well a plane is maintained and upgraded than how old it is, really. The DC-3 is indeed a sturdy aircraft! DC-3s are still flying in the Republic of Congo, but that's because they were previously in the hands of South African owners that had maintained them well. Now after 10 years of flying in the Congo area I wouldn't risk to entrust my life with any of them considering the lesser standards and limited means of the area.
Click to expand...
Good points.

I wonder what type of navigational equipment the presidential Tu-154 had. If it was outdated, then I wonder if the accident had not happened with something more modern, like Håkan Lans GPS-system or anything like that. Should pilots have to rely on radio compass at this day and age? ???
 
Knowing that I'll be repeating almost every post already here: Sincerest condolences to the people of Poland.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg
 
First of all, my condolences to those affected by the crash - a tragic accident on so many levels. After the Polish elite was already wiped out once at Katyn, it has now sort of happened again and in the process of commemorating the original tragedy, no less. Although they died at the hands of fate rather than tyranny this time, the historical connection and the sheer scale of the accident amplify the personal loss and impact suffered in any fatal crash. One can only hope that it serves to accelerate the process of rapprochement between Russia and Poland.

That said, it currently does not look as though the aircraft's age played any role. Built in 1990, this particular Tu-154M was about the same age as the US VC-25 fleet, although it is obviously of an older design vintage. If maintained properly, there was no reason why it would not be safe and reportedly comprehensive maintenance had only recently been performed. It's too early to pass a final judgement of course, but at the moment it seems that pilot error (CFIT) is to blame.
 
According to wikipedia:
Tu-154:
66 accidents, about 1000 airframes built
http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?field=typecode&var=475%&cat=%1&sorteer=datekey&page=1

Boeing 727:
110 accidents , about 2000 airframes built
http://aviation-safety.net/database/type/type.php?type=102

It seems it's not a particularly bad aircraft for its timeframe.

Probably maintenance and training is the chief factor here. It seems it did a controlled flight into terrain 2 km short of the airfield.
 
Pilot ignored orders not to land
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/pilot-ignored-orders-not-to-land-russian-officials-say/article1530087/

We have an overabundance of processing power on this planet. Its high time we handed the piloting over to computers.
 
sublight said:
Pilot ignored orders not to land
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/pilot-ignored-orders-not-to-land-russian-officials-say/article1530087/

We have an overabundance of processing power on this planet. Its high time we handed the piloting over to computers.
Click to expand...
Infact pilot had tried to land for three times without success before fatal fourth ! :-X
 
The airplane that crashed / Wikipedia photo. It was built 26 years ago.
 

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