OceanGate Expeditions Titan DSV loss

By this point Stockton Rush looks the proverbial Jurassic World greedy amoral idiot. Up to his very name - he looked like a Michael Crichton archvillain.
 
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FighterJock said:
That submersible should never have been allowed to have made the dive down to the Titanic.
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Part of the problem was that the CEO played it in a way where he was legally able to skirt a lot of non-binding rules and conventions. Hopefully that will eventually change as a result of this investigation, at least for US based ventures.
 
martinbayer said:
Part of the problem was that the CEO played it in a way where he was legally able to skirt a lot of non-binding rules and conventions. Hopefully that will eventually change as a result of this investigation, at least for US based ventures.
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There's two different aspects to this.

The first is regulatory oversight of edge cases, where something doesn't quite fit into existing regulations. And then it was further complicated in that he was playing things so neither USCG or CCG had obvious authority over operations.

The second aspect is that risk is one thing when everyone participating has full knowledge of the risks that are being taken, and the professional background to understand that risk; it's something else entirely when it's being marketed to the public as a 'safe' form of transport. Informed consent really wasn't a thing OceanGate were interested in.

You can legislate for the first one, though the multi-national aspect makes it difficult, but the second is more difficult, because it's more about ethics than rules.
 
DWG said:
but the second is more difficult, because it's more about ethics than rules.
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As far as ethics go it's quite clear that that arsehole Stockton Rush thought they were an inconvenient obstacle, IMO he clearly suffered from some sort of personality disorder (His behaviour and actions showed a callous disregard for safety for one thing).
 
Dilandu said:
This one was unmanned, so no big deal.
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It's a couple of years ago now, so not really news, and it was operating autonomously between the bottom of the glacier and the sea bed, so about as hostile an environment for a submersible as it's possible to get.
 
southwestforests said:
"My truth doesn't have to be the same as reality's truth and both are equally valid."
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More like "What's the point for regulations" and "Safety regs are for pussies".

DWG said:
Clearly he had an acute case of tech-bro - move fast and break things, and hope nothing catches up with you.
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Oh, there's definitely that too but I still he had some sort of personality-disorder, I wouldn't at all be surprised if he got a high score on the Hare-Psychopathy checklist, reading in between the lines Stockton Rush gives the impression of being a high-functioning sociopath (A fairly common trait for businessmen like him I understand).​
 
For me, the lesson is in how some people will use the lack of control and oversight outside of national boundaries.

PRC scrap dealers demolishing shipwrecks which are classified as war graves for example.

We need p[roper international standards that cover the entirety of access to waters outside so called national boudaries, might curb the prc, doubtful though.
 
Foo Fighter said:
We need p[roper international standards that cover the entirety of access to waters outside so called national boudaries, might curb the prc, doubtful though.
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Problem is, USA would fight tooth & claw against any such rules, since they would restrict USA much more than everyone else.
 
Byeman said:
What is that based on?
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Today's news:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3vnl0yxg53o
More than 100 countries had gathered in London to approve a deal first agreed in April, which would have seen shipping become the world's first industry to adopt internationally mandated targets to reduce emissions.

But US President Donald Trump had called the plan a "green scam" and representatives of his administration had threatened countries with tariffs if they voted in favour of it.
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Another matter, two months or so ago:
https://www.npr.org/2025/08/24/nx-s...or-rare-minerals-science-shows-whats-at-stake
The U.S. wants to mine the deep sea for rare minerals. Science shows what's at stake.
[...]
Glomar Minerals, a mining company based in the U.K. Companies like his and some countries, including the U.S., want to commercially mine the deep sea. But scientists are warning about the environmental impact.
[...]
rare earth elements accumulate over millions of years in these potato-sized lumps called polymetallic nodules found on the sea floor. Matthias Haeckel, a marine geochemist at GEOMAR Helmholtz Centre for Ocean Research Kiel in Germany, says these nodules are found in certain parts of the ocean and act as anchor points for all kinds of marine life.
[...]
Because less than 1% of marine snow or organic material falls into the deep sea, everything down there grows very, very slowly. So if mining were to ever happen and those nodules were removed, Haeckel says they would not come back any time soon.
[...]
These environments are fragile, and it's one of the reasons that 38 countries have called for a moratorium on deep-sea mining until scientists figure out the safest way to do it.
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Both items touch on matters I'm interested in, so it took me two minutes to trace these news stories. More items to illustrate the point should be easy enough to find.

But I am drifting off topic.
 
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Foo Fighter said:
For me, the lesson is in how some people will use the lack of control and oversight outside of national boundaries.
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Flags of Convenience led to Deepwater Horizon. This is why you need visits from the Coast Guard—and unions both.

FOCs should be banned
https://professionalmariner.com/americans-pay-for-cruise-industrys-flags-of-convenience/https://professionalmariner.com/flags-of-convenience-are-a-disgrace-to-the-maritime-industry/
We are always going to need asphalt.

Deepwater-was yet another example of suits telling roughnecks/workers how to do their jobs.

Not off topic at all—-there will be other OceanGate disasters.

https://www.news.uscg.mil/News-by-Region/Headquarters/Titan-Submersible/https://hackaday.com/2025/10/31/recovering-data-from-the-oceangate-depths/
 
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Byeman said:
My point still stands. Neither deal with safety of construction of vessels which is the topic.
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Well, we were going terribly off topic, but I highlighted the bit by @Foo Fighter that did touch on how Stockton Rush got away with playing silly buggers by operating in international waters. Until he didn't, that is.
Byeman said:
Dilandu said:
Foo Fighter said:
For me, the lesson is in how some people will use the lack of control and oversight outside of national boundaries.

PRC scrap dealers demolishing shipwrecks which are classified as war graves for example.

We need p[roper international standards that cover the entirety of access to waters outside so called national boudaries, might curb the prc, doubtful though.
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Problem is, USA would fight tooth & claw against any such rules, since they would restrict USA much more than everyone else.
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What is that based on?
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US governments frequently balked at control and oversight outside of national boundaries. Unless it was the US doing it. That is still going on, I notice.
 
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Arjen said:
US governments frequently balked at control and oversight outside of national boundaries. Unless it was the US doing it. That is still going on, I notice.
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You mean like rregulatory agencies like the IMO, ICAO, IMF, IAEA, etc And who funds more than 1/5 of the UN's budget.
 
FighterJock said:
Let's wait and see what happens and if they will learn from their mistakes martinbayer. This whole thing was a disaster waiting to happen in my view and should never happen again.
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Pretty much everybody else didn't need to "learn from their mistakes"; what was being done wrong was clearly known and that CEO was repeatedly informed.

He was suicidally and homicidally stupid.
 
Byeman said:
You mean like rregulatory agencies like the IMO, ICAO, IMF, IAEA, etc And who funds more than 1/5 of the UN's budget.
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The US isn't doing it all the time, but right now -
The ICC in The Hague is being harassed by the US government with some history since 2002
The shipping deal.
Reneging on the Paris Agreement of 2015.
Various operations in the Caribbean.

Really off topic again, I fear.
I would not automatically assume US support for international agreements on maritime safety.
 
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Too right 1636 Yankee, the CEO should never have even been allowed to launch that day and those people would still have been alive to this day.
 

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