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Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23

Phos

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litzj said:
Phos said:
Does anyone know what the benefit of jet engines in a tow out arrangement is?, Both the F-23 EMD and NATF-23 have the arrangement. I get that having them toe in helps in engine out situations, but that obviously isn’t the case for toe out.

less momentum when one of them is in flame out?
For a puller engine, yeah, but pusher engines need to be toe in for that to work, like on the su-35 and su-57. I would expect toe out to make single engine yaw even worse.
 

Phos

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Steven said:
When comparing the F-23 DWGs with the YF-23, it appears that the chines on the F-23 are substantially more subdued than on the YF-23. I wonder what effect that has on vortex generation at high alpha; I would think that it would be less than on the YF-23. Is there anything on the high alpha testing or modeling of the YF-23 to give insight as to why the chines were altered?
It looks to me that the chines didn't shrink, everything else grew into them. I wanna say they generate compression lift? I'm no expert but I think the bottom is the part that matters.
 

icyplanetnhc

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Phos said:
Does anyone know what the benefit of jet engines in a tow out arrangement is?, Both the F-23 EMD and NATF-23 have the arrangement. I get that having them toe in helps in engine out situations, but that obviously isn’t the case for toe out.

The F-23's arrangement does create a worse yawing moment due to asymmetric thrust. My guess is that they had sufficient confidence in the reliability of the engines to go with that arrangement in order to improve volume distribution and area ruling.
 

Ogami musashi

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HangarB Productions F-23 model, is up for sale at sketchfab. Even if the model is not true to the F-23A EMD, this is one of the rare F-23 model of high quality and can be used as a starting point for modification into the EMD version.
 

shawnblue

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Would anyone happen to have the unclassified technical drawings? I'm attempting to create a 1:12 scale flying replica. I have one sheet in high quality, and a few in that are almost impossible to read.
 

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Ogami musashi

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Would anyone happen to have the unclassified technical drawings? I'm attempting to create a 1:12 scale flying replica. I have one sheet in high quality, and a few in that are almost impossible to read.
You have the most recent and accurate one in paul metz YF-23 book @air force legends.
 

galgot

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That plan is a beauty.
Please there is one thing I don't understand, does the part I point on this crop means that the V-Tail could be rotated down to 37° and 17.1° for storage ? yf23question.jpg
 

flateric

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Lol, no. It just shows clearances.
 

Foo Fighter

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The only link I can imagine between those two is wheels, wings and gear.
 

sferrin

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That area in red has always surprised me. It would be worse from other angles.

614462
 

Sundog

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With regard to the area in red I figured three things:

1) There is something about the way all of the radar waves bounced around in the duct that made that not a problem.
2) They didn't expect any radar signals to be coming from head on at the same altitude, due to it's operational altitude. All of the radar waves from in front would be from well below the waterline of the aircraft.
3) They were going to incorporate some sort of fan blocker that didn't need to be shown in these drawings.
 

flateric

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Seeing something by eye =/= radar wave return from it. pp 1 and 2 are quite a good description.
 

rooster

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With regard to the area in red I figured three things:

1) There is something about the way all of the radar waves bounced around in the duct that made that not a problem.
2) They didn't expect any radar signals to be coming from head on at the same altitude, due to it's operational altitude. All of the radar waves from in front would be from well below the waterline of the aircraft.
3) They were going to incorporate some sort of fan blocker that didn't need to be shown in these drawings.
You really gotta be centered up just perfectly to get a look at the compressor blades. Even just slightly askew and that little red spot will vanish. I don't think they would be visible except in engineering drawings. And perhaps maybe they were going to use coatings like on the tu160 blades. Or perhaps there's a slight bump inside the ducts to hide the redspot that's not in these public drawings
 

Ogami musashi

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Can you share a better three view of the model?
Why do you want a three view? as tomcat said, there are a lot of programs that open .obj files, so you can make your own 3-view, and mess with the weapon bays to see if they accomodate 6 aim-120c :)
 

katuro

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There has been a well hidden F-23A EMD 3D model out there for months.
Your are supposed to go to the niconico video page, login, then download the F23.zip file, the password is the first flight date of the Yf-23 in the format dd/mm/yyyy .
Then you have a .pmx file, that is a file for mikumikudance video game, that you can convert to obj easily.
But since I am sure very few of you (if any) have an account to niconico video, below is the link to the obj file (and textures)

The model is the most accurate I have seen, by far. Even weapon bays and cockpit are modelled, there are also many moveable parts.
I am the author of the model. I would be happy to be introduced to it, but redistribution of the model is a violation of the Usage Policy. Therefore, I request that the link to OneDrive be removed.
 
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Jemiba

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Sorry, link removed !
 

Ogami musashi

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There has been a well hidden F-23A EMD 3D model out there for months.
Your are supposed to go to the niconico video page, login, then download the F23.zip file, the password is the first flight date of the Yf-23 in the format dd/mm/yyyy .
Then you have a .pmx file, that is a file for mikumikudance video game, that you can convert to obj easily.
But since I am sure very few of you (if any) have an account to niconico video, below is the link to the obj file (and textures)

The model is the most accurate I have seen, by far. Even weapon bays and cockpit are modelled, there are also many moveable parts.
I am the author of the model. I would be happy to be introduced to it, but redistribution of the model is a violation of the Usage Policy. Therefore, I request that the link to OneDrive be removed.

Sorry, link removed !
I have apologised to katuro. Naturally, there was no bad intent behind my post, just to make things easier, while linking to the original source.
Thank you for the moderation.
 

BDF

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"Zero-One" from F-16.net shared this on the F-22 forum. Its a interview with Rick Abell who was a civilian working for the AF (or DoD can't remember) during the acquisition of the ATF program. Has some interesting insight into the process and a bit about the two airplanes. For the TLDR crowd he basically says that each airplane had strengths and weakness but he would've been happy with either as the winner. The final decision went to senior AF leadership which to me gives at least some credibility to the speculation that the decision may have boiled down to preserving LM as a airframer, Northrop's poor performance with the B-2 etc etc.



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MUK241uZHM&t=3780
 
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