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Northrop Grumman B-2A Spirit

SOC

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I remember watching the first flight live on TV from RAF Alconbury in the UK!

Here's two shots of one of the Iron Bird static airframes, restored and displayed at the USAF Museum. Anybody know what happened to the other one?
 

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flateric

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I remember seeing photo in WAP backissue of both iron birds mothballed somewhere at desert-like area in 90s. So it's logical to assume that other one still can be threre. Will check tonight.
 

SOC

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I've seen that (I have the entire run of WAPJ), it showed them both stored at Palmdale. You can see them in overhead imagery from the early 90's as well. But now, they're gone! One is at Wright-Patterson...did another museum get the other one? Maybe the SAC museum? They could be sitting on it restoring it.
 

Just call me Ray

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The other one may be at the South Dakota Air & Space Museum which had the Honda "B-2" model (built for a commercial that can be seen below) which was apparently replaced by a "more accurate B-2 model" (makes me think one of the Iron Birds) and the Honda model was destroyed as stipulated in the donation contract (a shame really, saw it back in '95 but I don't believe I took pictures)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M40uSxC6_1k
 

Matej

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Website
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http://blog.flightstory.net/1088/photos-northrop-grumman-unveils-b-2-stealth-bike-built-by-occ/
http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/pages/news_releases.html?d=157374
http://www.as.northropgrumman.com/products/b2spirit/assets/B2_Bike_FactSheet.pdf
 

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donnage99

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I did a little research on this case, concerning Noshir Gowadia being accused of "disclosing vulnerabilities of our nation's most imporant strategic asset." And there are some interesting claims that I picked out:
1) He claimed to have designed the propulsion system, from leading edge to trailing edge. The entire geometry came from him.

2) The paper claimed that he transfered data and tech that conceals B-2's nozzles from IRST. Officials familiar with the program and the case claimed that the compromise has significant damage to US strategic plan in which the B-2 is a integral part of it.

3)Paper also claimed he illegally helped design and later designed a cruise missile's nozzle for China that would make it less detectable.

4)He transfered classified tech to Israel and Europe in particular, to help IR reduction in their eurocopter project (have no idea which one)

)According to Noshir Gowadia, The b-2 program was built to end the Cold War. The US intentionally leaked the existence of b-2 to the Soviet so that they would know that there's nothing they can do to defend against the bomber.

5) According to Gowadia, the government originally awarded the ATB contract to Lockheed, but due to their problem with the propulsion system, Northrop ultimately won (how convenient, since he designed the propulsion system).


http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/97631679.html
 

SOC

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For what it's worth, Lockheed did have trouble getting the HAVE BLUE/SENIOR TREND platypus nozzle design to cooperate early on. Maybe they found it didn't scale up right to a 4 engine design and had to try something else which was also problematic?

As for the B-2's IR suppression, from open sources (I only used two books, and neither is all that new) you can figure out that part of it is due to mixing cool air diverted from the intake (that'd be the boundary layer air sucked through underneath the serrated intake ramp), part of it is due to the nozzle design (the exhaust ramps are shaped to use the Coanda effect to divert thrust over and aft, allowing them to be buried below the trailing edge to mask their view from aft; the sides of the ramps are shaped to promote the creation of vortexes that aid in mixing the exhaust stream with external, cooler air), part of it is due to the fact that the nozzles are forward of the trailing edge atop the wing, masking their signature to a degree from below. The only thing that stands out to me right away that may be of singificant value is the exact composition of the materials in the exhaust cavity lining. But again, that isn't necessarily going to be a big help in tracking one, although it would be valuable in application to cruise missiles or other aircraft. Passing along the exact dimensions of the intake and exhaust system won't really help you figure out how to track it with an IR sensor, but it would help you make more accurate RCS models to mess around with. If you ask me, that'd be where the "significant damage to US strategic plan" might come from, being able to accurately model the jet to figure out how to track it effectively.

There's also a rumored "extra" system, based on the appearance of some weird extra bays in a cutaway drawing. That is believed to have been associated with a chemical additive to eliminate contrails though, and if it was ever even installed may or may not have had anything substantial to do with the B-2's IR signature.
 

AeroFranz

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SOC, the chemical in question was said to be rather 'nasty' in composition (you can probably find the name of the compound, it wasn't secret AFAIK), and was (allegedly) replaced operationally by a small camera pointing aft to keep an eye on contrails. If these are actually formed, the pilot changes altitude until these disappear.
The bays formerly used to hold the chemicals are now considered for use with new systems.
 
C

Catalytic

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Gowadia's career appears to be bereft of publications (or at least, not in the public domain)

One, (which is almost certainly him) is very on message regarding conventional IR suppression i.e. engine nozzle modification (nothing too revolutionary here).

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19810020581_1981020581.pdf
see page 36

Capone, F. J.; Gowadia, N. S.; and Wooten, W. H. :
Performance Characteristics of Nonaxisymmetric Nozzles Installed on the F-18 Aircraft.
Presented at the 17th AI AA Aerospace Sciences Meeting, New Orleans, La., Jan.
15-17, 1979, 31 pp.
AlAA Paper 79-0101

If Gowadia's quotes contained in the link attached to donnage99's original post are free from hyperbole then he has said some interesting things here...

(1) He said the B-2 was the second-most secret project in United States history after the atom bomb
Hmmm, that is not my recollection of events! That an Advanced Technology Bomber was under development was a matter of public record long before the aircraft was first displayed (which in turn was 8 months before it had even took to the air). I suppose it's possible that aspects of the B-2's technology pallet are "the second-most secret project in United States history", however IIRC the ATB project itself was more grey (e.g. ATF) than super black (e.g. QUARTZ) maybe things were different back in 1981?

(2) Holding up a model of the aircraft in front of the jury, he said he was asked to design the B-2s propulsion, from the leading edge of the aircraft to the trailing edge. "This entire geometry came from me," he said. This statement is at best disingenious, He did not design the B-2's General Electric F118 engines! Maybe this is just somantics but to me a propulsion system is primarily the engines, however Gowadia seems to interchange propulsion system with geometry and leading / trailing edges.

Once the leading edges of the b-2 are mentioned, thoughts inevitably lead to the March 1992 issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology, entitled "Black world engineers, scientists,encourage using highly classified technology for civil applications". This article explains how the B-2's unusually profiled leading edge is charged to "many millions of volts", while the corresponding negative charge is blown out in the jets from the four engines....

Some random observations

(a) It's interesting that in the late 1970's Northrop felt the need to "upgrade" the electrical insulation within its wind tunnel and RCS facilities.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg16822646.300-plasma-stealth.html

(b) More speculatively
There is a conference paper by an N Gowadia relating to “Electrospraying Biologically Active Materials,”

Coincidentally, this paper was published in 2005, the year of N. S. Gowadia arrest. If it is the same man, the underlying principle of electrospraying + the timing of the conference paper = obvious speculation to be made here......!

the paper is titled

Gowadia, N. and Dunn-Rankin, D. (2005) “Electrospraying Biologically Active Materials,” ILASS
Americas 18th Annual Conference on Liquid Atomization and Spray Systems, Irvine, CA, May
23–25.
D.74 Li, Y.-H.,

I have not yet been able to obtain a copy of the conference paper or verify that these are the same Gowadia's.....
 

quellish

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Catalytic said:
(1) He said the B-2 was the second-most secret project in United States history after the atom bomb
Hmmm, that is not my recollection of events! That an Advanced Technology Bomber was under development was a matter of public record long before the aircraft was first displayed (which in turn was 8 months before it had even took to the air). I suppose it's possible that aspects of the B-2's technology pallet are "the second-most secret project in United States history", however IIRC the ATB project itself was more grey (e.g. ATF) than super black (e.g. QUARTZ) maybe things were different back in 1981?
Well if there was something more secret, he wouldn't know about it would he? :)
At the time that phrase was bandied about a lot in reference to both ATB and SDI. That a project was the most secret/biggest since the Manhattan Project.
Developing a strategic bomber in the black has arms control implications. I'm not sure you can do it today, but in the 80s and 90s it was not doable within the US political climate.
Even QUARTZ was not super black, by 1992 the program name was being referenced in open sessions.

Catalytic said:
(a) It's interesting that in the late 1970's Northrop felt the need to "upgrade" the electrical insulation within its wind tunnel and RCS facilities.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg16822646.300-plasma-stealth.html
Actually, this was the SECOND upgrade. The first was a few years earlier, and IIRC confined to a single facility. The late 70s upgrade was more widespread. Again, IIRC, it was the late 60s that Northrop started looking into coronal discharge for drag reduction. I do have public (dead tree) references for that, and I'm in the process of moving things in and out of storage this week so I may be able to find them (and other things I've been meaning to dig up and post).
 

quellish

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Catalytic said:
(a) It's interesting that in the late 1970's Northrop felt the need to "upgrade" the electrical insulation within its wind tunnel and RCS facilities.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg16822646.300-plasma-stealth.html
After reading the newscientist page above, I knew it sounded familiar....
http://web.archive.org/web/20060323071004/members.macconnect.com/users/q/quellish/TR3/tr3page1.html

*sigh*.

As an epilogue, over the years as more and more information about the B-2 opened up I was able to look deeper for any electrostatic shenanigans. If there is such a system installed, nobody at Whiteman is maintaining it!
 
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Catalytic

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quellish said:
Actually, this was the SECOND upgrade. The first was a few years earlier, and IIRC confined to a single facility. The late 70s upgrade was more widespread. Again, IIRC, it was the late 60s that Northrop started looking into coronal discharge for drag reduction. I do have public (dead tree) references for that, and I'm in the process of moving things in and out of storage this week so I may be able to find them (and other things I've been meaning to dig up and post).
I for one would be very interested if you do find them, thanks in advance (but please don't go to any trouble)

quellish said:
As an epilogue, over the years as more and more information about the B-2 opened up I was able to look deeper for any electrostatic shenanigans. If there is such a system installed, nobody at Whiteman is maintaining it!
Yes, that is very damming :-[

It's very easy to get carried away, I recently read a magazine interview with Brig Gen Robert Wheeler, commander of the 509th Bomb Wing. The interviewer posed the following question "It's Northrop's contention that the USAF is only beginning to find out what the B-2 is capable of. What's your take on that?". The Generals answer was interesting... before I pass that on though, first imagine you are the commander of the only fleet of Stealth bombers in existance, think of the capabilities you could choose to gush about, where would you start? This is what the General said "The bottom line is that you can add things as the threat changes, so we will never stay static. You start off with the basic powerplant capabilities and then you add as technology moves." I wouldn't have chose to talk about general electric F118 engines... would you? he must have the "powerplant capabilities" prominent in his thoughts for some reason :p

Seriously though, I'd dismissed thoughts of any kind of electrostatic shenanigans on any plane untill the recent discussion of the KEMPSTER A device, which was all new news to me....Still, I'll watch the rest of Gowadia's trial with interest

Regarding IR suppression, the B-2 is a shy girl, I've never seen a photograph which shows any detail of what lurks up her exhaust channels, although I've been lead to believe there is something exciting up her skirts and that close up photographs from compromising angles are prohibited?
 
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Catalytic

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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/spy-turned-to-stealth-after-adf-deal-fell-through/story-e6frg6z6-1225902297568

A few interesting details have emerged during this trial, please excuse my paraphrasing.....

(1) When FBI agents raided his Maui home they were not even aware of his Chinese activities. Until then, the FBI's year-long covert investigation had been looking at his activities in Canberra and Europe.

(2) Successive Australian governments have consistently refused to release the findings of an inquiry, headed by former inspector-general of intelligence and security Ron McLeod, into whether the ADF tried illegally to buy the radar suppression technology secrets from its ally. US authorities will not comment on speculation that a political decision was made not to lay espionage charges against Gowadia over his work with the ADF because of the relationship between the two countries. The McLeod report was among documents supplied to US authorities ahead of the trial, which also included charges the former defence contractor sent classified B-2 information to the Swiss government and businesses in Israel and Germany. In 2005, then attorney-general Philip Ruddock ordered the probe after The Australian newspaper revealed Gowadia co-owned a Canberra-based company, NTech Australia, with Defence Department employee and former navy lieutenant-commander Arthur Lazarou.

(3) A preliminary Defence investigation found more than $1m had been paid to NTech to test Gowadia's Advanced Infra-Red Suppression System for the RAAF's Hercules C-130 transport aircraft. "The Australian Defence Force, which is very interested in discovering ways through which it can manage the signature levels of its aircraft, invited this individual to provide a two-day course on design for stealth,". "That course was so successful that Defence then, informally, invited that individual to establish a company within Australia to bring stealth technology to the ADF." For months, testing of the technology was carried out on a 20:1 scale model of a C-130 in a government facility in Melbourne. Lazarou, 49, who still works for the Defence Materiel Organisation, wrote in his thesis that the trial produced "outstanding test results". Australia's military brass were considering extending the tests to other aircraft, including "fast jets and helicopters".


Intriguing that the reason for the US authorities initial interest in Gowadia was nothing to do with selling secrets to China.

Taking the above statements as truth, to me it's a little hard to imagine how an engine nozzle modification would provide "outstanding test results" on a C-130's Turboprops? (I suppose "outstanding" is an unquantified value, if your previous best efforts only achieved a 5% reduction in signature, then 10% might be considered "outstanding"?).

Again, taking the above statements as fact and assuming these type of mods exist, would we see these rapidly applied to aircraft at the outbreak of conflict with an enemy possesing credible heat seaking threats? I guess until that occurs nobody is showing their hand and fitting them as standard.

If MANPADS really were a serious / increasing threat in Afghanistan I'd expect to see these fitted soon (at least to choppers)
 

saintkatanalegacy

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sure can't see the trail from here...

regarding chlorosulfonic acid:
it has a specific heat of 1.18 kJ/kgK compared to water which has 4.187 kJ/kgK
it has a heat of vaporization of 452-460 kJ/kg compared to water which has 2270 kJ/kg

hence, it can absorb heat faster than most compounds which makes it ideal for shroud IR signature dissipation

:)
 

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quellish

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saintkatanalegacy said:
sure can't see the trail from here...
Aircraft was not in VLO configuration ;)
 
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Catalytic

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saintkatanalegacy said:
sure can't see the trail from here...
Indeed, Is that the infamous Rapier electro optical sight picture of the B2 from Farnborough 96? Whilst BAe at the time trumpeted this as a big success for their SAM system, obviously they would be struggling to see anything at +50,000ft? and even if they could, rapier can't get anywhere near it, so it was a load of marketing nonsense really.
If that image is a genuine IR signature of the B2, the complete absence of exhaust blooms is very impressive

http://img410.imageshack.us/i/irsignature.jpg/

Another thing that stands out is the uniformity of the IR signature across the aircraft, You might expect frictional heating to result in the leading edges being hotter, but not in this image!

The data supplied on chlorosulfonic acid is seductive and where there is smoke there is usually fire (or hopefully not in the case the B2's exhausts). I have some reservations though, If we consider the volumes of hot gas being thrown out of the back of the B2, even with the ability of this compound to absorb heat, the amounts of this chemical required would imply that this IR shroud could only be temporarily applied and would not last for thousands of miles (unless the tank is huge and also capable of in-flight refilling?).

The more commonly espoused application of chlorosulfonic acid on the B2 makes a little more sense (at least in terms of range of application). As a catalyst, chlorosulfonic acid could be added to the exhaust stream in much smaller quantities (in order to prevent the formation of ice crystals) and would be effective for a longer time / range that an IR shroud?

Also heard speculation that a LIDAR is used to keep an eye on contrails out the back of the B2 but that's just "he said, she said" as far as I know....
 

quellish

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My understanding is that the acid was for contrail suppression rather than IR, and that the problem was solved by other means.
 

saintkatanalegacy

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well, it is used as a mist eliminator...

so reckon it can keep the moisture from condensing due to its chemical properties...
 

Antonio

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorosulfuric_acid

Hygroscopy is the ability of a substance to attract water molecules from the surrounding environment
 

Antonio

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Just Wow!

:-*


http://www.as.northropgrumman.com/products/b2spirit/assets/B2_Bike_FactSheet.pdf
 

Dreamfighter

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Aha!
New strategy... Long range strike bike for the USAF

Indeed very cool bike. Would come in handy overhere for evading speeding-controls by police-radars. ;)
 

Abraham Gubler

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Nice but they didn't get the angle between the cylinders in line with the leading edges...

While this is cool it is no where near as innovative as the Northrop B-2 coffee cup – that is a piece of art for the ages.
 

shockonlip

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quellish said:
Catalytic said:
...
Catalytic said:
...
it was the late 60s that Northrop started looking into coronal discharge for drag reduction.
I do have public (dead tree) references for that, and I'm in the process of moving things
in and out of storage this week so I may be able to find them (and other things I've been
meaning to dig up and post).
I suspect you're talking about the Cahn and Andrew
experiments at Northrop in the late 1960's and early 1970s.

Allow me to help, as I also was involved in finding some
of this back in the skunk.works mail list days, and I
still have it handy.

Refs:

"Electroaerodynamics In Supersonic Flow";
M.S. Cahn and G. M. Andrew
Northrop Corporation;
Hawthorne, CA
AIAA No. 68-24
AIAA 6th Aerospace Sciences Meeting;
New York, N.Y.;
Jan 22-24, 1968

Abstract:
The research presented in this paper pertains to the effects
of electrostatic fields on a charged flow of fluid about a body.
The phenomenon was studied with wind tunnel tests and by hydraulic
analogy tests. The results indicate that electrostatic forces can
alter the flow pattern of a fluid and it may be possible to
attenuate the sonic boom. In addition, if the sonic boom is decresed
there may also be a wave drag reduction.



"Recent Experiments In Supersonic Regime With Electrostatic Charges";
M.S. Cahn, H.M. Andrew, and W.E. Anderson
Northrop Corporation
Hawthorne, CA
AIAA No. 70-759
AIAA 3rd Fluid and Plasma Dynamics Conference
Los Angeles, CA
June 29-July 1, 1970

Summary:
This paper presents the results of recent experiments in airflow
control by electrostatic discharges. The tests were conducted
in M = 1.5 and M = 3 wind tunnels with 1.5-by 3-inch test sections.
Two-dimensional full span models were used. Up to 100,000 volts
at 10 milliamperes were applied to the model to produce the required
gaseous discharge in the airstream. A Schlieren system provided still
and motion picture data of the bow shock wave ahead of the models.
Differential pressure measurements were taken across the shock waves.

At M = 1.4, the shock wave moved upstream when 40 kilovolts and 70 watts
are applied to the model. Other test configurations caused the shock
wave to move both upstream and downstream. In one experiment, at
M = 1.4 the shock wave completely disappeared from view.

Areas of additional research and possible applications are presented.



"Northrop Studying Sonic Boom Remedy";
AW&ST; Jan. 22, 1968; pg 21.


"Expeiments Indicate Electric Charge Could Quiet Sonic Boom";
Product Engineering
March 11, 1968
pg 35-36
 
C

Catalytic

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saintkatanalegacy said:
any idea how they keep it from absorbing moisture even in its liquid phase?
The standard practise in the chemical industry for handling hygroscopic liquids is a nitrogen blanket, the headspace (air gap) above the liquid in a vessel is filled with nitrogen gas (the production of the nitrogen gas is done in such a way as to reduce water vapour content to a minimum), as the vessel empties more nitrogen can be pumped in to fill the increase in headspace and ensure that water vapour from the atmosphere does not enter the vessel.

shockonlip said:
I suspect you're talking about the Cahn and Andrew
experiments at Northrop in the late 1960's and early 1970s.

Allow me to help, as I also was involved in finding some
of this back in the skunk.works mail list days, and I
still have it handy.

Refs:

"Electroaerodynamics In Supersonic Flow";
M.S. Cahn and G. M. Andrew
Northrop Corporation;
Hawthorne, CA
AIAA No. 68-24
AIAA 6th Aerospace Sciences Meeting;
New York, N.Y.;
Jan 22-24, 1968

Abstract:
The research presented in this paper pertains to the effects
of electrostatic fields on a charged flow of fluid about a body.
The phenomenon was studied with wind tunnel tests and by hydraulic
analogy tests. The results indicate that electrostatic forces can
alter the flow pattern of a fluid and it may be possible to
attenuate the sonic boom. In addition, if the sonic boom is decreased
there may also be a wave drag reduction.



"Recent Experiments In Supersonic Regime With Electrostatic Charges";
M.S. Cahn, H.M. Andrew, and W.E. Anderson
Northrop Corporation
Hawthorne, CA
AIAA No. 70-759
AIAA 3rd Fluid and Plasma Dynamics Conference
Los Angeles, CA
June 29-July 1, 1970

Summary:
This paper presents the results of recent experiments in airflow
control by electrostatic discharges. The tests were conducted
in M = 1.5 and M = 3 wind tunnels with 1.5-by 3-inch test sections.
Two-dimensional full span models were used. Up to 100,000 volts
at 10 milliamperes were applied to the model to produce the required
gaseous discharge in the airstream. A Schlieren system provided still
and motion picture data of the bow shock wave ahead of the models.
Differential pressure measurements were taken across the shock waves.

At M = 1.4, the shock wave moved upstream when 40 kilovolts and 70 watts
are applied to the model. Other test configurations caused the shock
wave to move both upstream and downstream. In one experiment, at
M = 1.4 the shock wave completely disappeared from view.
Thank you, unfortunately I have not been able to find these references in the AIAA archives (and I've looked several times) you don't happen to have copies of the papers do you?

The new scientist link that was discussed earlier in this thread was also referring to this work and was speculating that there was something to be read in the apparent lack of research into electrostatic drag reduction in a subsonic context.

before I'm accused of being in the tinfoil hat brigade I should state that I've seen no conclusive evidence that this stuff is applied on the B2
 

shockonlip

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Catalytic writes:
>Thank you, unfortunately I have not been able to find these references
>in the AIAA archives (and I've looked several times) you don't happen
>to have copies of the papers do you?

Yes I have paper copies of all this.

No, they're there on the AIAA web site dude!
I checked before I posted to make sure!
You can order them online even, very easy!

Go to this URL.
http://www.aiaa.org/content.cfm?pageid=413
(or search google for "aiaa paper search".

Then, in the "Advanced Options" section go down 7
lines to the "AIAA Paper Number" line and input
in the first box 1968 for year (left click the down
arrow and slide/select 1968 from the year drop down box),
then in the box to the right enter 24), then left-
click "search" near the top.

You'll get:
1. 100% Electroaerodynamics in supersonic flow.

ANDREW, G. M., NORTHROP CORP., NORTHROP NORAIR, HAWTHORNE, CALIF.
AIAA-1968-24
AMERICAN INST OF AERONAUTICS AND ASTRONAUTICS, AEROSPACE SCIENCES MEETING, 6TH,
NEW YORK, N.Y., Jan 22-24, 1968
SEE FIRST PAGE > ADD TO CART >

Selecting ADD TO CART > llows you to order it online.

For the second paper go back to the AIAA advanced search menu and enter:
1970 for year
759 for paper number

You'll get:
1. 100% Recent experiments in supersonic regime with electrostatic charges

ANDERSON, W. E., NORTHROP CORP., HAWTHORNE, CALIF.
AIAA-1970-759
AMERICAN INST OF AERONAUTICS AND ASTRONAUTICS, FLUID AND PLASMA DYNAMICS
CONFERENCE, 3RD, LOS ANGELES, CALIF., Jun 29- Jul 1, 1970.
SEE FIRST PAGE > ADD TO CART >

>before I'm accused of being in the tinfoil hat brigade I should state that I've
>seen no conclusive evidence that this stuff is applied on the B2

What does the research we are talking about have to do with the B-2?
I don't believe that there is any linkage of this work to the B-2, either.
This Northrop work is a line of research that initial indications (ie: these
papers) say might be fruitful, but has not been followed, for whatver reason.
It's one of those interesting unfollowed roads in aerospace.
 

quellish

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shockonlip said:
What does the research we are talking about have to do with the B-2?
I don't believe that there is any linkage of this work to the B-2, either.
This Northrop work is a line of research that initial indications (ie: these
papers) say might be fruitful, but has not been followed, for whatver reason.
It's one of those interesting unfollowed roads in aerospace.
There was speculation in an issue of AWST in the 90s that this research had been applied to the B-2's leading and trailing edges.

LM has several patents on applications of this for supersonic aircraft, the aircraft in their drawings is one of their QSP concepts.
 

shockonlip

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quellish said:
shockonlip said:
What does the research we are talking about have to do with the B-2?
I don't believe that there is any linkage of this work to the B-2, either.
This Northrop work is a line of research that initial indications (ie: these
papers) say might be fruitful, but has not been followed, for whatver reason.
It's one of those interesting unfollowed roads in aerospace.
There was speculation in an issue of AWST in the 90s that this research had been applied to the B-2's leading and trailing edges.

LM has several patents on applications of this for supersonic aircraft, the aircraft in their drawings is one of their QSP concepts.

But where are the test vehicles?
We have seen no development of this technology for over 40 years.
Over that time, we have seen stealth develop and we can point to its test vehicles.
We can say that for other technologies as well.
Why not this one?
 
C

Catalytic

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I think the 3 of us are in agreement here :)

Thanks for the help on the AIAA search.
 
C

Catalytic

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http://www.spacedaily.com/news/future-00o.html

More significantly, the Arnold Engineering Development Center at the Arnold Air Force Base in Tennessee has a number of ballistic ranges and wind tunnels that are being modified to put plasma-assisted models through their paces. "We're charged with anticipating future testing capabilities, and a number of organisations have shown interest," says Tom Best, who heads the applied technology directorate at the centre. Exactly who these organisations are and what they plan to test is not something Best is willing or able to reveal.

http://www.arnold.af.mil/news/mediacenter/story_print.asp?id=123129797

12/18/2008
"We were working with plasma and building the (plasma) chamber and all that was great. Now, I'm similarly trying to keep this wind tunnel running and adding new capabilities to it."

http://www.arnold.af.mil/news/story_print.asp?id=123172868

10/15/2009
Professor Trevor Moeller, with the University of Tennessee Space Institute (UTSI), received a Special Award for his contributions as a world-class expert in the area of plasma physics and electric propulsion. Moeller delivered the keynote address at the International Conference on Magneto-hydrodynamics held in Japan last month.
In 2007, one of Moeller's plasma physics papers received the "Best Propulsion Paper Award" by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers' Propulsion Technical Committee.

Additionally, he has been selected as the technical chair for the upcoming AIAA Plasmadynamics and Laser Conference in Chicago next year.

http://www.utsi.edu/faculty/tmoeller/moeller.htm

Only 1 patent? seems rather "unproductive" for an overachiever.
"we shall watch your career with great interest" (Chancellor Palpantine)
 
C

Catalytic

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Back on topic

Gowadia was found Guilty

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/10/noshir-gowadia-us-stealth_n_676720.html

Three defense witnesses with long experience in the U.S. military industry testified that the information Noshir Gowadia provided to China was meaningless or was publicly available, Ashton Gowadia noted.

"They literally got out the textbooks, and they matched the stuff from the government's evidence to textbooks, one published in 1935 and another one published in 1969," Ashton Gowadia said from the Honolulu airport, where he was awaiting a flight to the mainland.

Jurors "had evidence to exonerate him," he added.

"They were actually shown a plethora of evidence to show that all this stuff was in the public domain and was freely exchanged between engineers and professors all over the world."

Assistant U.S. Attorney Ken Sorenson said after the verdict was announced that Gowadia's case was unique because he had been prosecuted for and convicted of exporting knowledge derived from work in U.S. classified programs.

"If you can take that and go sell it or market yourself on an international stage in secrecy to other governments and not suffer criminal sanctions for it, then we're in trouble," Sorenson said Monday."



Just how much of this court case was in open session? I wonder if there were aspects of the prosecutions evidence that we don't know about?
 

Hammer Birchgrove

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Reminds me of the car that looked like the F-117 Nighthawk; all it needed was the radar-absorbing paint and it would evade radar. Saw it on TV, so no links I'm afraid.
 

quellish

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shockonlip said:
But where are the test vehicles?
We have seen no development of this technology for over 40 years.
Over that time, we have seen stealth develop and we can point to its test vehicles.
We can say that for other technologies as well.
Why not this one?
It may be impractical to create enough power for a system like this to be effective in flight. It's also possible that if it was flight tested, it was only recently, and is still sensitive. Or maybe it didn't work at all.
Keep in mind we have only seen *some* stealth test vehicles. There are still things even from the 1970s that are behind the green door. The details of Quiet Bird, for example, only came to light fairly recently.
 

BAROBA

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Hammer Birchgrove said:
Reminds me of the car that looked like the F-117 Nighthawk; all it needed was the radar-absorbing paint and it would evade radar. Saw it on TV, so links I'm afraid.
This ugly thing?

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/15600
 

Hammer Birchgrove

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BAROBA said:
Hammer Birchgrove said:
Reminds me of the car that looked like the F-117 Nighthawk; all it needed was the radar-absorbing paint and it would evade radar. Saw it on TV, so links I'm afraid.
This ugly thing?

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/15600
Probably that one! ;D Thanks!
 
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