Nord 5103 AA-20 and 5110 AS-20 missiles

Adamok

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Hello, thanks for accepting my application here.

I need an informations about AS-20 nord 5110 missiles and AA-20 5103 as a base for AS-20s.

I know there are informations about them in flight international. Magazine v.80 1961 no 2737 (November 1961). Can somebody send me a pdf or something of this magazine?

Generally i need technical data of this missiles like speed, weight, warhead, explosive type etc.

Thanks for Your help.
 
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klem

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hi, I found something for you but it's in French
 

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Archibald

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COMAERO is a great resource.


Masse au lancement143 kg
Longueur2,60 m
Diamètre25 cm
Envergure80 cm
VitesseMach 1,7
Portée10 km
Charge utile33 kg
Guidageradioguidage à distance (MCLOS)


Masse au lancement134 kg
Longueur2,60 m
Diamètre25 cm
Envergure80 cm
Portée4 km
Charge utile23 kg, HE + fragmentation
Détonationimpact + fusée de proximité

Le Fana de l'aviation a long time ago had a monography of French Ju-88s testing these missiles and it was... epic, and hilarious at times.
 

Adamok

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COMAERO is a great resource.


Masse au lancement143 kg
Longueur2,60 m
Diamètre25 cm
Envergure80 cm
VitesseMach 1,7
Portée10 km
Charge utile33 kg
Guidageradioguidage à distance (MCLOS)


Masse au lancement134 kg
Longueur2,60 m
Diamètre25 cm
Envergure80 cm
Portée4 km
Charge utile23 kg, HE + fragmentation
Détonationimpact + fusée de proximité

Le Fana de l'aviation a long time ago had a monography of French Ju-88s testing these missiles and it was... epic, and hilarious at times.
hi,i found something for you but it's in french

Thank You both. Tell me please who's exactly an author of this whole text, bc it tells:
"René Carpentier’s text describes the last fifty years of a material that has been around for at least five centuries"*
but on the end of PREFACE is:
"Paris, January 20, 2003 General engineer Jean Soissons former director of aeronautical constructions"*

Also I guess it's official and reliable source?

* - translated to english


I also found this page, but I can't find whole book, scan or anything "inside" of this. Maybe someone from here have this (ss-1.jpg)?
 

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Archibald

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COMAERO is kind of history branch of SUPAERO and the two ENSTAs.


Also I guess it's official and reliable source?

Top notch source. Very, very serious people: they are France top three aeronautical engineering schools.
 

klem

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maybe this gives you more information
 

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Adamok

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COMAERO is kind of history branch of SUPAERO and the two ENSTAs.


Also I guess it's official and reliable source?

Top notch source. Very, very serious people: they are France top three aeronautical engineering schools.
maybe this gives you more information
Thanks for answers again.

I found Russian book about this so i will just add that here, maybe it would be usefull for someone.

V. L. Kovalenko and M. N. Ostroumov "Guide to foreign fleets"
Rus: (Коваленко Ванифат Алексеевич, Остроумов Михаил Николаевич - "Справочник по иностранным флотам")

Order of the Red Banner of Labor
Military publishing house of the USSR Ministry of Defense

Moscow - 1971


I can't arrach whole PDF, bc it's too large (75,9MB), but i will upload an page with info about AS.20s. If somebody needs the whole PDF, PM me then i will upload it on WeTransfer or something.
 

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Adamok

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None of the Flight pages have any technical details though. Here's something from Aviation Week 16 March 1964
Gunston's Modern Airborne Missiles
Flight Archive is offline.

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1960/1960 - 2525.PDF

This page is attached as a JPG.

1. Can You tell me the exact sources of all of this JPGs? Title, year, author etc.

2. On that page of Aviation week 16, march 1964 there is something about "Italian journal Alata" do You have that?
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Hmm, are you unable to operate Google or read the writing in the JPGs?

Added above along with second page of Flight article. No, I have few Italian journals.

Bill Gunston's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Rockets & Missiles (Salamander, 1979) has a bit more on AA.20 including a cutaway drawing likely from Flight or The Aeroplane in 1957 but I don't have it scanned.
 
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Adamok

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Are you unable to operate Google or read the writing in the JPGs? Added above along with second page of Flight article. No, I have few Italian journals.

Bill Gunston's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Rockets & Missiles (Salamander, 1979) has a bit more on AA.20 including a cutaway drawing likely from Flight or The Aeroplane in 1957 but I don't have it scanned.
I just need exact title, author and date that's why I asked for it.

Thank You for Your help :)

Best regards.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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You could have found that information easily enough by reading the JPGs or a simple author / title search, which was my point.
 

Adamok

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You could have found that information easily enough by reading the JPGs or a simple author / title search, which was my point.
I've just checked it quickly on smartphone, maybe thats why, when i go back home i will read the whole JPGs You've sent.
 

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So the last information i need is about explosive charge - how much and what type of explosive charge was there, pure TNT or what?
 

Archibald

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Look at the wikipedia link I provided early - aproximately 30 kg.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Bill Gunston's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Rockets & Missiles (Salamander, 1979) says

  • AA-20 had a 23kg warhead with proximity fuse, prefragmented and containing 5kg of Hexogen and Tolite.
  • AS-20 deleted the proximity fuse and had 4 different warhead options, 33kg initially but later standardized to 30kg.
 

Adamok

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Bill Gunston's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Rockets & Missiles (Salamander, 1979) says

  • AA-20 had a 23kg warhead with proximity fuse, prefragmented and containing 5kg of Hexogen and Tolite.
  • AS-20 deleted the proximity fuse and had 4 different warhead options, 33kg initially but later standardized to 30kg.
Yes i saw that too, but i think that was WHOLE warhead, not only explosive charge.
 

klem

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Association aéronautique et astronautique de France-Commission Histoire (Fusées des années 40-50)
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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Bill Gunston's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Rockets & Missiles (Salamander, 1979) says

  • AA-20 had a 23kg warhead with proximity fuse, prefragmented and containing 5kg of Hexogen and Tolite.
  • AS-20 deleted the proximity fuse and had 4 different warhead options, 33kg initially but later standardized to 30kg.
Yes i saw that too, but i think that was WHOLE warhead, not only explosive charge.
Yes, only the AA-20 details show explosive charge weight.
 

dan_inbox

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Association aéronautique et astronautique de France-Commission Histoire (Fusées des années 40-50)
Can you please elaborate on picture 080.jpg ?
No matter what the super-imposed text says, the missile does not look like an AA-20 at all.

This is what an AA-20 looks like:
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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First works in the AAM domain (AA-10 program) related to on an adaptation of the X-4 German missile built at the Châtillon arsenal as from 1946. Codenamed 5101, this wire-guided, liquid fueled missile proved quickly to be maladjusted. The versions 5102 and 5103 appeared then in 1951 and 1952. This last version, conceived in the frame of the AA-20 program, was radio-controlled and solid-fueled. The boost loading ejected by two nozzles placed on both sides of the sustainer one placed at the center. This motor was equipped with four jet deflectors for the guidance. This missile, mass produced from 1956 (about 6,000 units), was the first European AAM put in operational service.

Nord Aviation also conceived a supersonic ASM from its 5103 AAM. Initially codenamed 5110, it took the definitive name of AS 20 in 1958. This missile, very similar in the AA-20 but without proximity fuse, carried a warhead derived from the one of the AS 12. The propulsion comprised an Aspic boost motor grain (16.3 kg Plastolite) then an Icare sustainer grain (23.5 kg Epictète) [2,8] . More than 6,000 units were produced and used by 4 countries. In 1961, it was the first ASM in service in the NATO European forces.

From Jean-Jacques Serra & Philippe Jung - French solid motors for missiles and rockets from WWII to the Sixties

56th International Astronautical Congress of the International Astronautical Federation, the International Academy of Astronautics, and the International Institute of Space Law
 

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First works in the AAM domain (AA-10 program) related to on an adaptation of the X-4 German missile built at the Châtillon arsenal as from 1946. Codenamed 5101, this wire-guided, liquid fueled missile proved quickly to be maladjusted. The versions 5102 and 5103 appeared then in 1951 and 1952. This last version, conceived in the frame of the AA-20 program, was radio-controlled and solid-fueled. The boost loading ejected by two nozzles placed on both sides of the sustainer one placed at the center. This motor was equipped with four jet deflectors for the guidance. This missile, mass produced from 1956 (about 6,000 units), was the first European AAM put in operational service.

Nord Aviation also conceived a supersonic ASM from its 5103 AAM. Initially codenamed 5110, it took the definitive name of AS 20 in 1958. This missile, very similar in the AA-20 but without proximity fuse, carried a warhead derived from the one of the AS 12. The propulsion comprised an Aspic boost motor grain (16.3 kg Plastolite) then an Icare sustainer grain (23.5 kg Epictète) [2,8] . More than 6,000 units were produced and used by 4 countries. In 1961, it was the first ASM in service in the NATO European forces.

From Jean-Jacques Serra & Philippe Jung - French solid motors for missiles and rockets from WWII to the Sixties

56th International Astronautical Congress of the International Astronautical Federation, the International Academy of Astronautics, and the International Institute of Space Law

Do You have scan or pdf of that source?
 

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Pages 2 -3 of the article.

I feel like I'm doing your university assignment for you?
I mean it would be better if You paste that quote with source below and page number, so it would be much easier and I would have all I asked for in one reply of Yours, right?

Thanks for Your help.
 

klem

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bonne lecture.
 

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Adamok

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bonne lecture.
Thanks.



I also need:
Flight September 16th 1960
Flight June 12th 1959
flight international. v.80 1961 no 2737

I've asked flateric.88 but he is out of home for a week so maybe maybe someone else have this Flight magazines.



And still the most important thing is warhead composition with explosion mass.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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I can get the Flight stuff for you but it's work finding each article so - what do you need this all for? What new information are you expecting to find?
The warhead composition is rarely given for any missile so I think you are unlikely to find what you are after. Why is it important? Are you adding the missile to a flight sim or something?
 

Adamok

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I can get the Flight stuff for you but it's work finding each article so - what do you need this all for? What new information are you expecting to find?
The warhead composition is rarely given for any missile so I think you are unlikely to find what you are after. Why is it important? Are you adding the missile to a flight sim or something?
"Are you adding the missile to a flight sim or something?" Yup, exactly that's why.

It's game called War Thunder it's vehicular combat multiplayer game. There are Tanks/Planes/Helicopters/Battleships.
I'm playing this game since 2013 and military/technology is my hobby.

Italian/German G.91's armament among others is 4x AS.20 nords, but there have wrong parameters.
Developers are aiming to make all as close as possible to reality - using only Unclassified informations bc of law, as You know tons of military information are restricted - with parameters of vehicles armor, penetration of rounds, speed/explosion mass or bombs/rockets etc.

maybe You heared about a guy, he said he is a commander in challenger 2 tank in UK army, who published classified documentation about challenger 2's gun mountlet armor to proove devs there is wrong modeled in game - it's very weak armored, (he edited that documentation, by crossing out"CLASSIFIED" and writing "UNCLASSIFIED" below).
Devs contacted with minister of defence of UK to ask him about that and he said that's CLASSIFIED, so devs deleted that documentation from forum.

That was example of real fanatic :p
 

Archibald

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Well unlike that Challenger tank driver, the french missiles have been retired since 60 years so at least you are not endangering present soldiers. Only retired aviators.
 
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