• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Mosquito with a 32-Pounder

smurf

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
549
Reaction score
41
I have seen reference to this (94mm or 32 pdr) in two or 3 places (details if anyone wants them) implying that it was a. considered, and b. in another place, actually built and flown postwar. Does anyone have confirmation, drawings, picture, please?
 

Antonio

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,532
Reaction score
311
I haven't heard about it, possibly Lark can add something.

From page 72-73 British Secret Projects 1935-50 (Tony Buttler) : A conversion for the Mosquito to take the AT 6 pounder cannon was proposed by 1943.


The biggest cannon I know to be planned for an aircraft was a 280 mm :eek: in a Ju-288 antiship version
 

Hood

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
2,145
Reaction score
1,789
I know we discussed this before Smurf, I take it you never found out anything else? I'm afraid I haven't found anything else either since we last discussed this.
 

Archibald

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
5,105
Reaction score
2,971
Quote- The biggest cannon I know to be planned for an aircraft was a 280 mm in a Ju-288 antiship version -quote

and that's how the Germans invented the thrust reverser... ;D
 

eltf177

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
47
Reaction score
2
Hi, new member (just discovered this wonderful site).
If the 94mm is the same as the 17pdr anti-tank gun then this isn't a joke. One of my Ian Hogg books (I'll try and dig it out when I get home) mentions that there was a serious plan to fit the 17pdr anti-tank gun into the Mosquito. A special devise had to be designed to help the airframe withstand the massive recoil.
In the end it was decided that rockets were the way to go and no further work was done (no real suprise).
One of the Italian Piaggio P.108 bombers had a 102mm (4-inch) gun fitted for anti-shipping use.
 

Archibald

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
5,105
Reaction score
2,971
A funny history about Ju-88 guns...

After WWII france build around 70 Ju-88 which were used as testbed (for ramjets!) until 1954 (that's not a joke!)

One of the units flying Ju-88 was located in north Africa. They had
Ju-88c night fighters, with gun in the nose...
First time they tried the gun (on the ground) was quite fun. The plane was in front of the target, they fired the gun and...the shell flew above the target, and felt 4 km farther, in the hangar of an Aeronavale base!
 

Antonio

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,532
Reaction score
311
I'll try and dig it out when I get home

Wellcome eltf177 :)

In the end it was decided that rockets were the way to go and no further work was done (no real suprise)

For the same reason the highly specialized Martin-Baker "Tankbuster" was cancelled in 1943

While waiting for more info I post the Ju-288 with 280 mm canon
Source: Die Deutsche Luft-Rüstung 1933-1945 Vol 3
Heinz J Nowarra
Ed: Bernard&Graefe
 

Attachments

  • Ju-288 with 280 mm gun.jpg
    Ju-288 with 280 mm gun.jpg
    12.2 KB · Views: 711

Antonio

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,532
Reaction score
311
I have this:

Fig 87 pg 120 "Junkers Ju 288 mit rückstossfreier 28-cm-Kanone"

on page 121 we can read the following entry:

"Junkers Ju-288 G-Reihe
Projektierte Version mit 1 x 35,5 cm-Kanone im Bombenraum, die beim Einsatz gegen Schiffsziele durch ben Bug ausgefahren werden sollte"

My knowledge of German Language is very basic...can our German friends give a little help ? (Boxkite or Jemiba)
 

gral_rj

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
90
Reaction score
33
Meteorit said:
Do you have the designation of that gun?

Geheimprojekte der Luftwaffe Band III designates it as the Düsenkanone 28cm, or Düka 280. The gun would have fired a 400kg projectile at 560 m/s muzzle speed, penetrating up to 200mm armour.
 

gral_rj

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
90
Reaction score
33
pometablava said:
on page 121 we can read the following entry:

"Junkers Ju-288 G-Reihe
Projektierte Version mit 1 x 35,5 cm-Kanone im Bombenraum, die beim Einsatz gegen Schiffsziele durch ben Bug ausgefahren werden sollte"

My knowledge of German Language is very basic...can our German friends give a little help ? (Boxkite or Jemiba)

The 33,5 cm gun(Gerät 104 "Munchausen") was a recoilless gun carried below the fuselage; it measured 11.25 meters long, and it would have fired a 700 kg projectile at 280 m/s.
 

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,280
Reaction score
1,198
"Junkers Ju-288 G-Reihe
Projektierte Version mit 1 x 35,5 cm-Kanone im Bombenraum, die beim Einsatz gegen Schiffsziele durch ben Bug ausgefahren werden sollte"

=

Junkers Ju 288 G-Series
planned version with a 35,5cm gun < 14in> in the bomb bay, for use against ships extendable
through the bow
 

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,280
Reaction score
1,198
Ah, people, who are very tidy, are just too lazy for searching !
"Münchhausen-Gerät" was a good clue, I knew, it was mentioned somewhere ..
About 30 years ago, I've bought a series of paperbacks, not what I would call
good and reliable today, but nevertheless, two issues, one about german, the
other about allied secret weapons mention the "Gerät 104" and the 32 pdr
gun in the Mosquito.
The SG 104 is shown under a Do 217 and not inside the bomb bay, as with
the Ju 288.
Of the 32 pdr, just the recoil damper (?) is shown, designed by Monsieur Galliot.
 

Attachments

  • Muenchhausen.JPG
    Muenchhausen.JPG
    34.1 KB · Views: 622
  • Galliot.JPG
    Galliot.JPG
    39.3 KB · Views: 524

smurf

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
549
Reaction score
41
Thank you all for your efforts. The gun is not the 17 pdr, but its potential successor, the 32 pdr, roughly comparable with the 94mm AA gun. Ian Hogg was one of my sources, but I think he is actually just quoting one of the others. The DH design team was according to British Aircraft Armament Raf Guns And Gunsights From 1914 To The Present Day
Clarke, R.Wallace
asked about upgrading the Molins 57mm 6pdr to 17 pdr, with the response that the stress calculations had already been done for the 32 pdr. The other claiming an actual post war flight and firing trials iis one of the early histories of the Mosquito, but as we moved recently my books are still packed and I can't check which one. On the other hand, no other books mention it and the DH museum in Hatfield was dismissive. So, any evidence?
 

smurf

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
549
Reaction score
41
Sorry about this. More haste less speed! The gun was [to be?] fitted with a Galiot muzzle brake. The 'secret weapons' books were specials in Purnell's History of WWII part-work series. The article on the 32 pdr Mosquito and the Galiot muzzle brake was by Ian Hogg, a very respected writer on artillery, but not always consistent. As I said, I think he was quoting my other source.
 

lark

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,809
Reaction score
91
... a heavy gun installation had been considered.Mounting a
3.7 in. (94mm) anti-aircraft gun into a Mosquito and on
4 December 1942 a ground attack version with extra armour
plating were discussed and weight estimates made.

So far "Mosquito" by C.Martin Sharp and Michael J.F.Bowyer
Creycy Pubications - 1995

No illustration...
 

sferrin

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
13,759
Reaction score
1,976
Jemiba said:
Ah, people, who are very tidy, are just too lazy for searching !
"Münchhausen-Gerät" was a good clue, I knew, it was mentioned somewhere ..
About 30 years ago, I've bought a series of paperbacks, not what I would call
good and reliable today, but nevertheless, two issues, one about german, the
other about allied secret weapons mention the "Gerät 104" and the 32 pdr
gun in the Mosquito.
The SG 104 is shown under a Do 217 and not inside the bomb bay, as with
the Ju 288.
Of the 32 pdr, just the recoil damper (?) is shown, designed by Monsieur Galliot.

Those look like pages from the series "Weapons and Warfare" yes?
 

Antonio

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,532
Reaction score
311
Another source for information about German aircraft heavy cannons is:

Lufwaffe Secret Projects. Ground Attack & Special Purpose Aircraft. Dieter Herwig and Heinz Rode. Midland

http://www.amazon.com/Luftwaffe-Secret-Projects-Special-Aircraft/dp/1857801504/sr=1-1/qid=1169997557/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-6849275-0167308?ie=UTF8&s=books


Gerat 104 munchhausen is on page 259
Dusenkanone Duka 280 is on page 262

That weapons had more penetrating power than any bomb so they were excelent against hardened land targets and ships.
 
J

joncarrfarrelly

Guest
Gerat 104 from 'German Aircraft Guns: WWI - WWII', Edward J. Hoffschmidt, WE Inc. 1969


Cheers, Jon
 

Attachments

  • GERAT-104_01.jpg
    GERAT-104_01.jpg
    334.4 KB · Views: 590

Wyvern

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
598
Reaction score
651
Hello everyone,

I was recently searching through the internet when I found a drawing of a De Havilland Mosquito with a 32-pounder (94 mm) gun in the nose. I would like to know whether it was a real project or not and whether anyone had heard about it. I would also like to know, if it is real, whether anyone has any information about it and what was the driving force behind it.


Thanks in advance,


Wyvern
 

Attachments

  • De Havilland Mosquito 32-pdr.jpg
    De Havilland Mosquito 32-pdr.jpg
    26.3 KB · Views: 161

Foo Fighter

I came, I saw, I drank some tea (and had a bun).
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
1,903
Reaction score
800
It is a fascinating find and makes me wonder what they would do with it, anti-shipping strike?
 

Wyvern

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
598
Reaction score
651
Agreed

Done !
 
Last edited by a moderator:

kitnut617

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Messages
413
Reaction score
145
... a heavy gun installation had been considered.Mounting a
3.7 in. (94mm) anti-aircraft gun into a Mosquito and on
4 December 1942 a ground attack version with extra armour
plating were discussed and weight estimates made.

So far "Mosquito" by C.Martin Sharp and Michael J.F.Bowyer
Creycy Pubications - 1995

No illustration...

I have the Faber & Faber issue, but I can't find that reference in it. Which chapter would it come under ?
 

edwest

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
1,269
Reaction score
417
The Germans put a 50 mm gun in the nose of an Me 262.
 

Tony Williams

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
614
Reaction score
283
Website
www.quarryhs.co.uk
I was recently searching through the internet when I found a drawing of a De Havilland Mosquito with a 32-pounder (94 mm) gun in the nose. I would like to know whether it was a real project or not and whether anyone had heard about it. I would also like to know, if it is real, whether anyone has any information about it and what was the driving force behind it.
From memory, the 32 pdr was intended to fire proximity-fuzed HE shells at bombers.
 

Similar threads

Top