Mirage 4000

Tonton-42 said:
CJGibson said:
The latest issue of The Aviation Historian has a good article on the Mirage 4000.

The Aviation Historian: HOMEPAGE

The world's most respected quarterly magazine covering the lesser-known aspects of flying history worldwide, The Aviation Historian is available in print and digital format. An introduction to the contents of the current issue, offering brief details of our latest additions to the global body of...
www.theaviationhistorian.com www.theaviationhistorian.com

Chris
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I love English people when sometime they try to imitate us the Frenchies ! But when Frenchies saw the Mirage 4000, they said as me at Le Bourget "WAAAAOOO ...", not a little "Oooh-la-la" ... as Marylin Monroe when she sang with Yves Montand ... ;)
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At Le Bourget 1983 I forgot to mention ...
 
Why wasn't the Mirage 4000 as it was put into production instead of the Dassault Rafael?
 
NMaude said:
Why wasn't the Mirage 4000 as it was put into production instead of the Dassault Rafael?
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Dassault requested 4000 for France and 2000 for export. The French government decided on the 2000, less expensive, for France and the 4000 for export...
Three countries showed interest. The revolution stopped the Iranian prospect, the costs of the war did not allow the Iraqi prospect and the refusal of the French government to acquire a pre-series put an end to the Saudi prospect...
The French government then made the choice of the Rafale, newer, cheaper and navalizable...

But perhaps the new book will teach us more about these topics.
 
NMaude said:
Why wasn't the Mirage 4000 as it was put into production instead of the Dassault Rafael?
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Too big, too expensive. Think of the 4000 as a F-15, and the Rafale as a F-18. Australia, Canada and a few others initially wanted F-15s but went for cheaper F-18s. Same for the engines: M53 is closer from a F100 when M88 is akin to a F404. Smaller engines allowed the airframe to shrink.
The Armée de l'Air repeatedly tried to get a french Phantom (Mirage IVC, 1958) then multiple F-111s or Tornados (VG strike: AFVG, G4, G8) then a F-15 (ACF, 4000): to no avail. The advent of the F-18, plus F404 and RB199 mid-size turbofans, provided a solution at least.

Rafale can be seen as a shrunk 4000 with a few additional goodies: different air intakes, more efficient canard, digital rather than analog FBW, a touch of stealth, plus a naval variant. Smaller size, more efficient engines.
Also (in theory at least) lower acquisition cost: because spread over more airframes: through arm-twisting of the Aéronavale and also a takeover of the full and entire fast jet fleet of the AdA (took 30 years since 1993, but we are getting closer: only the 2000 presently survives, all the others types have been send to scrap or museums).
 
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Archibald said:
NMaude said:
Why wasn't the Mirage 4000 as it was put into production instead of the Dassault Rafael?
Click to expand...

Too big, too expensive. Think of the 4000 as a F-15, and the Rafale as a F-18. Australia, Canada and a few others initially wanted F-15s but went for cheaper F-18s. Same for the engines: M53 is closer from a F100 when M88 is akin to a F404. Smaller engines allowed the airframe to shrink.
The Armée de l'Air repeatedly tried to get a french Phantom (Mirage IVC, 1958) then multiple F-111s or Tornados (VG strike: AFVG, G4, G8) then a F-15 (ACF, 4000): to no avail. The advent of the F-18, plus F404 and RB199 mid-size turbofans, provided a solution at least.

Rafale can be seen as a shrunk 4000 with a few additional goodies: different air intakes, more efficient canard, digital rather than analog FBW, a touch of stealth, plus a naval variant. Smaller size, more efficient engines.
Also (in theory at least) lower acquisition cost: because spread over more airframes: through arm-twisting of the Aéronavale and also a takeover of the full and entire fast jet fleet of the AdA (took 30 years since 1993, but we are getting closer: only the 2000 presently survives, all the others types have been send to scrap or museums).
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Plus the Rafale was a generation more advanced and thus promised a longer service life and better export possibilities.
 
BuckDanny said:
If we combine all of these photos, it should mean that the theorical max air to air load (fox 1 and 2 only, no 3) was 6 Magic and 4 Super 530 (I assumed the "long range missiles" on the 5th picture were Super 530). With room to spare for various pods and jammers. Truely a beast.
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Hello, I hope you're doing well!
I'm looking for sources regarding the armament of the (Super) Mirage 4000. I was wondering what was the sources of those two images that you posted, thanks.
 

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Archibald said:
The Armée de l'Air repeatedly tried to get a french Phantom (Mirage IVC, 1958) then multiple F-111s or Tornados (VG strike: AFVG, G4, G8) then a F-15 (ACF, 4000): to no avail. The advent of the F-18, plus F404 and RB199 mid-size turbofans, provided a solution at least.
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Don't forget this Armée de l'air proposal for Mach 3 interceptor in 1960-1970s.
but i don't known how far that program interfere with the others: AFVG, G4, G8, AFC etc.
 

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