Lockheed XP-49

Justo Miranda

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Lockheed XP-49 info
 

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Justo Miranda

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Lockheed XP-49 info -post-2
 

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Steve Pace

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Carl Haddon was chief project engineer on the XP-49 program but search as I have using his name and the names Hibbard, Johnson and Hawkins I've yet to find the patent on this aircraft. Has anybody out there discovered the patent on the XP-49? Thanks in advance. -SP
 

Stargazer2006

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Steve Pace said:
Carl Haddon was chief project engineer on the XP-49 program but search as I have using his name and the names Hibbard, Johnson and Hawkins I've yet to find the patent on this aircraft. Has anybody out there discovered the patent on the XP-49? Thanks in advance. -SP

What makes you think the XP-49 would have required a separate patent from that of the XP-38? It's not like it was radically different in configuration, design or technology, right?
 

Steve Pace

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Skyblazer said:
Steve Pace said:
Carl Haddon was chief project engineer on the XP-49 program but search as I have using his name and the names Hibbard, Johnson and Hawkins I've yet to find the patent on this aircraft. Has anybody out there discovered the patent on the XP-49? Thanks in advance. -SP

What makes you think the XP-49 would have required a separate patent from that of the XP-38? It's not like it was radically different in configuration, design or technology, right?
Right - but I was thinking that a patent might have been applied for. If so, I would like to see it. That's all there was to my request. -SP
 

memaerobilia

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I know the XP-49 was three and a half feet longer than the standard P-38. But that does not help me, if the photo does not show them next to each other? How do you tell a P-38 from an XP-49, from an XP-58 VISUALLY? Are there different cowl openings or other Obvious features? Of course the are so many diffent models of P-38s, which does not help the situation.
As Skyblazer has noted, the company istself, describes the XP-49 as "a modified P-38"with supercharged Continental engines that gave it 230hp more hp than the contemporary Allisons, and the most powerful Lightining. and with pressurized cabin.
 

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memaerobilia said:
I know the XP-49 was three and a half feet longer than the standard P-38. But that does not help me, if the photo does not show them next to each other? How do you tell a P-38 from an XP-49, from an XP-58 VISUALLY? Are there different cowl openings or other Obvious features? Of course the are so many diffent models of P-38s, which does not help the situation.
As Skyblazer has noted, the company istself, describes the XP-49 as "a modified P-38"with supercharged Continental engines that gave it 230hp more hp than the contemporary Allisons, and the most powerful Lightining. and with pressurized cabin.
The XP-58 looked very different indeed. -SP
 

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Stargazer2006

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memaerobilia said:
How do you tell a P-38 from an XP-49, from an XP-58 VISUALLY?

Ooooohhh!! The XP-58 looked completely different!

As you can see in these compared views, the P-49 was merely a variant of the P-38 (with a few differences of course, but still a variant of Basic Model 22), while the P-58 was something else. This is especially apparent in front view.
I'm also adding the compared patents for the P-38 and P-58. Clearly, since these are Design Patents, not technical ones, the P-49 falls under the same general design as the P-38 in my opinion.
(NOTE: these images were prepared for design comparison purposes — all views are not exactly to scale with one another)
 

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iverson

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memaerobilia said:
I know the XP-49 was three and a half feet longer than the standard P-38. But that does not help me, if the photo does not show them next to each other? How do you tell a P-38 from an XP-49, from an XP-58 VISUALLY? Are there different cowl openings or other Obvious features? Of course the are so many diffent models of P-38s, which does not help the situation.
As Skyblazer has noted, the company istself, describes the XP-49 as "a modified P-38"with supercharged Continental engines that gave it 230hp more hp than the contemporary Allisons, and the most powerful Lightining. and with pressurized cabin.
If you compare a a view of the P-38 with the P-49 drawings in this thread, the P-49's canopy lines, the rake of the nacelle chin intakes, the length of the tail boom,s and the larger radiator ducts on the booms are all fairly distinctive.
 

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memaerobilia said:
I know the XP-49 was three and a half feet longer than the standard P-38. But that does not help me, if the photo does not show them next to each other?

Several versions of the Lightning from almost exactly the same angle.
 

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memaerobilia

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Well I thank you ALL, very much for the hard work to put up so many comparable illustrations. yes the XP-58 MAY look VERY different from SOME angles, but a 3/4 front view, with the extended center fuselage & cockpit mostly blocked out by the wings, is still going to challenge my own ID. A lot of the photos have such a pose, and after looking at them all, for hours, they certainly start to look more alike, than Different.

I think I need to put them aside and start fresh, again, tomorrow. There are PR Text sheets that came loose, for Each of the XP-49 and the XP-58, but I have not been able to positively link those loose sheets to any specific photo....yet. I Have been able to eliminate a fair number, where I can see military numbers on nose or tail, or specific info as to ID that is on the back with company stamps and dates. Will let you know when I get them sorted out.
Some of the photos are not as good as others. For example, I know this is not the 49 or 58

And, again, Thank you. :)
 

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Arjen

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One obvious difference between P-38 and P-49 (if seen from the angle in reply #12) is the windscreen's shape. The P-38's sort of follows the top contour of the central nacelle, the P-49's is a deeper cut.
 

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It appears to me that it's vertical stabilizers/rudders are shaped different as well. -SP
 

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Stargazer2006

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Steve Pace said:
It appears to me that it's vertical stabilizers/rudders are shaped different as well. -SP

Well, yeah. Longer tails means also enlarged fins, I guess.
 

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Steve Pace

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They were not as pear-shaped as on the P-38 (more oval-shaped). -SP
 

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I'd venture to say the P-49's fin/rudder was a P-38 unit with a parallel-section spacer, maybe ten inches high, inserted right above the boom. A quick way to increase area without a redesign.
 

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Apteryx said:
I'd venture to say the P-49's fin/rudder was a P-38 unit with a parallel-section spacer, maybe ten inches high, inserted right above the boom. A quick way to increase area without a redesign.

You are almost certainly right. I never noticed before, but the resulting discontinuity in the curvature of the fin's leading edge is clear in the side view.
 

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There's a fairly easy tell-tale so long as the nacelle isn't just a silhouette. The P-38s all have a small intake just aft of the spinner, roughly level with the wing leading edge, the XP-49 has a smooth nacelle with no intake.
 

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