Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

Forest Green said:
Turkey getting rid of Russian oil instead is likely Trump's plan. Probably even give them a cut-rate deal if they do that. But then what Trump says is easily done is often not easily done.
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That is next to impossible and you’d know why if you had been following Turkey’s energy deals over the past decades.

There are existing contracts, multiple pipelines, and a nearly finished nuclear station that is going to be operated by the Russians for the next 60 years.

Also, unlike the majority of the EU, Turkey actually does share a border with its historical rival, Russia, and does not want to repeat everything that happened after it justifiably shot down a Russian Su-24 — when the entire NATO basically left Turkey alone, told them to "sod off" and even tried to question the existence of Article 5.

You simply can’t defeat geography. You'd need Iranian oil to replace the Russian ones anyway; so the U.S. has no real incentive to pressure Turkey to decouple from them. (I'm sure having a NATO member as a mediator between the rest of NATO and the Russians is also nice to have.)

The more important news is the SMR MoU. They've been trying to get that moving for several years now.
FighterJock said:
So will Turkey finally get rid of the S-400s that was key to this whole issue in the first place? The ball is firmly in Turkeys court as the saying goes.
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They will never come, the U.S. will almost certainly find yet another pretext to block the transfer of the aircraft that are legally Turkey’s property.

Screenshot 2025-09-26 153956.png

TomcatViP said:
Given that Israel F-35 has proved to be able to operate within that SAM range, the issue has became mostly irrelevant. There is not much point beyond that to stick with them.
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Hence why they keep coming up with more and more demands! :p ;)

C'mon guys, I for one am tired of having to repeat this discussion over and over again...

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/search/1534423/?t=post&c[thread]=17732&c[users]=snne&o=relevance
 
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snne said:
That is next to impossible and you’d know why if you had been following Turkey’s energy deals over the past decades.

There are existing contracts, multiple pipelines, and a nearly finished nuclear station that is going to be operated by the Russians for the next 60 years.

Also, unlike the majority of the EU, Turkey actually does share a border with its historical rival, Russia, and does not want to repeat everything that happened after it justifiably shot down a Russian Su-24 — when the entire NATO basically left Turkey alone, told them to "sod off" and even tried to question the existence of Article 5.

You simply can’t defeat geography. You'd need Iranian oil to replace the Russian ones anyway; so the U.S. has no real incentive to pressure Turkey to decouple from them. (I'm sure having a NATO member as a mediator between the rest of NATO and the Russians is also nice to have.)

The more important news is the SMR MoU. They've been trying to get that moving for several years now.
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I never claimed any of Trump's wishes were realistic.
 
Forest Green said:
I never claimed any of Trump's wishes were realistic.
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It's not just whoever is the President, it's the CENTCOM, the Congress, and sometimes even the DoS; this has been going on for a long time now after all... Something has been off with the U.S.' policy toward Turkey ever since the Iraq War (if not earlier), and it honestly couldn’t have gone much worse.

It’s become institutional, and foreign interference through lobbying isn't helping either, which is certainly a sign of a major power unwilling to acknowledge the decline of its influence.

Turkey wants to secure the supply of F‑16 maintenance equipment, the F‑110 engines for the Kaan Block 10 and the F‑404 engines for Hürjet so that, until it achieves full self‑sufficiency on engines, it (if possible) no longer has to rely on the U.S in the future.

Moreover, the U.S.' need for deeper cooperation with the entire Turkish industry in general is growing by the day, and Turkey would clearly benefit from CAATSA getting lifted, expanded trade (reaching the 100B goal), and rejoining the F‑35 program as a supplier (to ease the flow of money for the Turkish military industrial complex).
 
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German F-35s to get AMRAAM D-3 (400x):

The US State Department greenlit a potential foreign military sale of up to 400 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air (AMRAAM) missiles to Germany, a deal valued at over $1.2 billion, according to a notice published by the Defense Security Cooperation Agency.

The approval paves the way for Berlin to acquire the weapons from defense giant RTX, whose subsidiary Raytheon manufactures the AMRAAM. The approval covers the AIM-120D-3 variant of the weapon and associated equipment, which the DSCA release on Thursday said will “provid[e]increased air-to-air capability for the German F-35 program” and other NATO needs.
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breakingdefense.com

State clears Germany for $1.2 billion worth of AMRAAMs - Breaking Defense

The sale would cover up to 400 copies of the Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile produced by defense giant RTX, which the Defense Security Cooperation Agency says will “provid[e] increased air-to-air capability for the German F-35 program” and other NATO requirements.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
ST21 said:
Belgium to buy nearly 600 AIM-9X Block II and Block II+ for its F-35s:


This is a rather massive stockpile for a planned fleet of 45 aircraft.
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What is strange is to purchase so many short range missiles to use on a syealthy plane... LM explained all day long that F-35 is made to shoot from at least medium range (before to be detected), not to enter in dog fight.
And for peace time air policy, 100 AIM9 are enough.
 
TomcatViP said:
German F-35s to get AMRAAM D-3 (400x):



breakingdefense.com

State clears Germany for $1.2 billion worth of AMRAAMs - Breaking Defense

The sale would cover up to 400 copies of the Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile produced by defense giant RTX, which the Defense Security Cooperation Agency says will “provid[e] increased air-to-air capability for the German F-35 program” and other NATO requirements.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
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I wonder if we'll certify the Meteor for our F-35s down the line. After all there are such efforts in Italy and the UK if I remember correctly.
 
Forest Green said:
snne, don't shoot the messenger.
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I'm not sh.tting you, this writer is (in)famous for being a mouthpiece, getting paid to write antagonistic articles against Turkey for several foreign lobbies (you know who). He's even suggested multiple times that the U.S. should literally declare war on and invade Turkey. This should tell you something about his "expertise" and his "trustworthiness". Just type "Michael Rubin Turkey" on Google and you'll see what kind of a man he really is.

Moreover, looking at his past articles, there's hardly any factual information in them.

While I do believe the negotiations are progressing positively and that something is indeed in the works, I suggest we wait and see what happens. (I still don't believe the Congress will approve it unless Trump uses his executive powers to temporarily freeze the NDAA Act and the CATSAA.)

snne said:
It's not just whoever is the President, it's the CENTCOM, the Congress, and sometimes even the DoS; this has been going on for a long time now after all... Something has been off with the U.S.' policy toward Turkey ever since the Iraq War (if not earlier), and it honestly couldn’t have gone much worse.

It’s become institutional, and foreign interference through lobbying isn't helping either, which is certainly a sign of a major power unwilling to acknowledge the decline of its influence.
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https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/search/1534423/?t=post&c[thread]=17732&c[users]=snne&o=relevance

BonPlan2 said:
And Erdogan think he will convince Donald ?
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Why do you people always have to bring the conversation back to that corrupt b*stard (Erdo)?
 
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BonPlan2 said:
What is strange is to purchase so many short range missiles to use on a syealthy plane...
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But what is strange?
Drone intercept isn't done at BVR ranges even with BVR weapons.

All these small f-35 fleets discarded their f-16 fleets precisely at the unfortunate moment need for them returned back.

They don't have advanced trainers either, and cant just initiate their procurement in a similar way.

So it will be F-35, with whatever available, to fill their own part.
 
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Do you think Belgium and the other European operators have the capacity to just keep operating the Viper fleets? What about pilots, maintenance and other personnel? What about air bases? There simply aren't resources for that.
With the option of another 11 jets, the Belgians would come close to a 1:1 F-16 replacement. They recently operated around 50 F-16s.
 
Needs to be remembered that the F16 is a 50 year old design

IE if you remember that thing first flight or first enter into service... You need to schedule a Doctors appointment for certain tests.

With alot of European base F16 fleets being over 20 years old on average.

The F16 was design for 15 years of service life for basically all makes. Hell in the 80s most people expected the F16 to be a 2rd line craft for nations that cannot get its replacement enmass by 2010

Alot of these jets are hitting the point where you can not fly them, not unless you pay the pilots triple with their families getting the rest of their service pay if they die when the old girls finally lose it nose midair.

You either can kick the can down the road by buying new models, or spend only a bit extra for the design ment for 30 years and have all the shinies that is the F35.
 
Firefinder said:
Needs to be remembered that the F16 is a 50 year old design

IE if you remember that thing first flight or first enter into service... You need to schedule a Doctors appointment for certain tests.

With alot of European base F16 fleets being over 20 years old on average.

The F16 was design for 15 years of service life for basically all makes. Hell in the 80s most people expected the F16 to be a 2rd line craft for nations that cannot get its replacement enmass by 2010

Alot of these jets are hitting the point where you can not fly them, not unless you pay the pilots triple with their families getting the rest of their service pay if they die when the old girls finally lose it nose midair.

You either can kick the can down the road by buying new models, or spend only a bit extra for the design ment for 30 years and have all the shinies that is the F35.
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I think Ainen's comment is more in relation to the anti drone capability and hosting for example APKWS on F-16s instead of using F-35 that has no APKWS integration at present and therefore restricted to AAMs.

Reality is though neither is a viable long term solution, burning hours on fighters chasing drones is also bad economics even if the weapon the fighter is using is relatively cheap.
 
Ozair said:
I think Ainen's comment is more in relation to the anti drone capability and hosting for example APKWS on F-16s instead of using F-35 that has no APKWS integration at present and therefore restricted to AAMs.

Reality is though neither is a viable long term solution, burning hours on fighters chasing drones is also bad economics even if the weapon the fighter is using is relatively cheap.
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Yeah, though I don't see using fighters as something bad.
They're doing their job. Not very efficiently, but damage rule still stands(successful attacker usually brings more harm than what was used to bring it down).

With cheap weapons, efficient drone GCI and good sensors, intercept as operation is becoming spread very efficiently per plane flying hour. If that hour isn't expensive in the first place(say, light fighter) - long range drones lose their economic attractiveness.
They aren't expensive, but they aren't free either. Breaking their economy is doable.
 
Is this a result of the drones flying over Danish airspace recently or unrelated? Either way it will be a welcome boost for the Danish military I would think helmutkohl.
 
First Nuclear NATO exercise for USAF F-35 in Europe:

NATO will kick of its annual nuclear-deterrence exercise Steadfast Noon on Monday with what will be among the largest number of participating aircraft in recent years.

This year’s edition will center around the North Sea area in Northwest Europe, with aircraft operating out of the Netherlands’ Volkel Air Base as the main hub, NATO officials said in a briefing ahead of the exercise. The United States will participate with four F-35s jets in the dual-capable aircraft role for the first time, with that role previously performed by the F-15E Strike Eagle.
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www.defensenews.com

NATO to kick off annual nuclear deterrence exercise with more aircraft

This year's edition of Steadfast Noon, which comes at a time of heightened nuclear tension, will involve 71 aircraft from 14 countries.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com

Edit:
3x Belgian F-35 are reportedly crossing the pond (with a NATO 330MRTT) - FL009 & FL010 - FL012 (edited to add the 3rd one)

Edit2:
A 4th airframe was left behind due to technical problems.
 
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Belgium AF 3xF-35 to land in the kingdom today at Florennes AB for the first time:

www.lalibre.be

Les premiers F-35 belges sont attendus à Florennes

Les premiers F-35 commandés par la Force aérienne belge doivent arriver lundi après-midi à la base aérienne de Florennes (province de Namur). La première...
www.lalibre.be www.lalibre.be

(read post above for a snapshot of their stop-over in the Azores on their way to Europe)

And it seems there is even a live show that will start in 2hr, at 1pm GMT - hold on your waffle:


View: https://youtu.be/8M7Hp88-6Ig

1760361745721.png

Edit:
It seems a 4th airframe was left behind during the Azores stop over due to technical problem with their software (interim Block 4). It should complete the crossing in the coming days.
 
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Firefinder said:
Needs to be remembered that the F16 is a 50 year old design

IE if you remember that thing first flight or first enter into service... You need to schedule a Doctors appointment for certain tests.
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I grew up near Hill AFB. My dad took me there in '79 for the open house where they showed off their new F-16. Still the shortest takeoff I've ever seen a fighter perform. (But then I was used to watching F-4s and F-105s.) Didn't look like it was moving very fast, yanked the nose up, and went straight up into the air.
 
joshjosh said:
These are non-CC TR3 jets?
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Until 40R02 software is released and operationally qualified, yes. The 4 RBAF F-35s (serials 009 thru 0012) first flew in August 2025, so at least their hardware is current (unlike the ~1,000 TR1/TR2 F-35s delivered before July 2024).

That release was supposed to happen before the end of fiscal year 2025, but September 30th has come and gone with no news. The last (optimistic) announcement in June was that software dev. work was completed but one last combat capability needed to be validated before release. Also some news sources note that several months of operational testing will be required after release, so combat capability isn't actually expected until after summer 2026.
 
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It's mainly the airframe with the full logistic around as inside the FMS frame. That's why it is a good basis to compare with other allies.

Basically, the Belgian gov waited to place an order just at the right time to get the best bargain with the appropriate airplane configuration.

We have a thread for the Belgian competition that led them selecting the F-35, here:


Contract early available details are here:

 
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TomcatViP said:
It's mainly the airframe with the full logistic around as inside the FMS frame. That's why it is a good basis to compare with other allies.

Basically, the Belgian gov waited to place an order just at the right time to get the best bargain with the appropriate airplane configuration.
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IIRC the US exempted Belgium from paying the FMS fees as if it was a partner nation in the program. They got a discount basically.
 
Manuducati said:
If the Belgian government did the good thing at the right time, it was most likely unintentional, or at least highly unusual!
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The SARs for the F-35 did project forward the expected costs and there was a dip that Belgium may have taken advantage of.

ST21 said:
IIRC the US exempted Belgium from paying the FMS fees as if it was a partner nation in the program. They got a discount basically.
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There is a lot of FMS exemption happening. Might be remembering incorrectly but I recall reading somewhere that the US Govt has gathered a surplus via FMS payments in excess of their use which is not what the payments are meant for and it creates issues for dealing with the money. They cannot just transfer it out and use elsewhere.
 
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