Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

It is not always or just a matter of resource allocation. On one end, you have proponents of the service arguing that it is the oldest its ever been and thus needs a boost in spending so that it can a) replace old and worn out aircraft / HW with new kit, and b) stabilize or reverse the shrinking fighter force. On the other end, you have the service itself taking whatever boost in spending it gets and injecting it straight into RDT&E accounts so that it now sits with one of the highest if not the highest percentage of overall service budget committed to RDT&E it has ever had.
 
Ozair said:
What is the rationale that a competitor is required to correct the program trajectory? Can you name a single other manned aircraft program that has benefited from that? Even in the F100/F110 scenario mentioned earlier there isn't conclusive evidence that that competition actually resulted in either sufficient cost savings or capability improvement to warrant the funds used across the life of the engine program.
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If the F100 hadn't had issues at the beginning there would have been no F110. You could count on one hand the number of fighters that have had multiple engine options (and they're all related to early F100 issues). Now look at how many aircraft whose ONLY option was the J57 or J79 or J75.
 
Royal Netherlands Air Force F-35s shot down Russian drones as part of a NATO mission to help protect Polish air space, according to Dutch Defense Minister Ruben Brekelmans.

NATO forces downed a number of Russian drones in the latest incident when the uncrewed systems crossed into alliance air space. Polish Air Force F-16s were reportedly involved in the operation as well.
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…

NATO said German Patriot air and missile defense systems in Poland were also put on alert, with the Italian Air Force's Gulfstream G550 airborne early warning aircraft and an airborne tanker also involved.
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Dutch F-35s Used In NATO Downing Of Russian Drones Over Poland | Aviation Week Network

Royal Netherlands Air Force F-35s shot down Russian drones as part of a NATO mission to help protect Polish air space, the Dutch defense minister confirmed.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
 
breakingdefense.com

Lockheed CEO says firm in 'very active' talks with DoD on 'Ferrari' F-35 with sixth-gen tech - Breaking Defense

Jim Taiclet first announced what he then called a “Ferrari” version of the F-35 in April, just weeks after Lockheed lost out on the Air Force’s Next Generation Air Dominance contract to Boeing.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com

We’ve gotten encouraging feedback. … There’s significant interest in the government about discussing aircraft modernization writ large, all the way up to the administration level, the White House level, and we’re in the middle of that with them, and we’re getting heard. We’re hearing back, and it’s pretty active.”
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Taiclet estimated that anywhere from 1,000 to 1,500 aircraft could be delivered as the “fifth-gen plus” version, even if export restrictions prohibit international buyers from being able to purchase that configuration. Upgrades for those jets could include new weapons, an improved stealth coating and potentially a more advanced engine, he said.
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Idiot congressmen/Trump proposing "lets cancel the F-47 and buy the coked up F-35 in 5...4...3...
 
Reddington777 said:
Idiot congressmen/Trump proposing "lets cancel the F-47 and buy the coked up F-35 in 5...4...3...
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I doubt that will happen but if there is funding available, which is the least certain part of this whole proposal, then continuing to recapitalise the USAF with more 5th gen is not a bad thing.

This is sounding more like a different pathway for Blk 5 and may deviate from the current jet pathway and therefore probably result in two future versions of the aircraft as blk4 and previous probably won't be compatible with many of the upgrades.
 
Ozair said:
I doubt that will happen but if there is funding available, which is the least certain part of this whole proposal, then continuing to recapitalise the USAF with more 5th gen is not a bad thing.

This is sounding more like a different pathway for Blk 5 and may deviate from the current jet pathway and therefore probably result in two future versions of the aircraft as blk4 and previous probably won't be compatible with many of the upgrades.
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Thats certainly the hope. Im all for upgrading them as long as we go full speed ahead on F-47 and maybe buy more F-47s too.
 
Reddington777 said:
breakingdefense.com

Lockheed CEO says firm in 'very active' talks with DoD on 'Ferrari' F-35 with sixth-gen tech - Breaking Defense

Jim Taiclet first announced what he then called a “Ferrari” version of the F-35 in April, just weeks after Lockheed lost out on the Air Force’s Next Generation Air Dominance contract to Boeing.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com



Idiot congressmen/Trump proposing "lets cancel the F-47 and buy the coked up F-35 in 5...4...3...
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Is this something like a Block 5 or something more significant? Will they redesign certain elements of the airframe? I ask because you could argue that the Blk. 4 is already significant "Ferrari" upgrade over the existing F-35s.
 
SlothmanAllen said:
Is this something like a Block 5 or something more significant? Will they redesign certain elements of the airframe? I ask because you could argue that the Blk. 4 is already significant "Ferrari" upgrade over the existing F-35s
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If ths materializes, it sounds like it could run the spectrum of at least as significant as a block upgrade or much more so. They are floating new engines and a new coating here amongst other opaque 6th gen tech that can be transferred over. It all depends on what these negotiations actually end up adding. Also block 5 is not a formal term they used (Ozair called it that).

Given the heat management problems F-35s have now, I sorta expect they need to do something about that like getting a more advanced engine before adding fancy 6th gen tech. So personally I expect it to be much larger than a block upgrade.
 
Reddington777 said:
breakingdefense.com

Lockheed CEO says firm in 'very active' talks with DoD on 'Ferrari' F-35 with sixth-gen tech - Breaking Defense

Jim Taiclet first announced what he then called a “Ferrari” version of the F-35 in April, just weeks after Lockheed lost out on the Air Force’s Next Generation Air Dominance contract to Boeing.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com



Idiot congressmen/Trump proposing "lets cancel the F-47 and buy the coked up F-35 in 5...4...3...
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Like chopping the F-22 so we can build a "real" fighter in the F-35.
 
Lockheed Martin should have called the upgraded F-35 the F-35 Plus not the Ferrari F-35, but I suppose it is all down to the LM marketing people.
 
Reddington777 said:
Idiot congressmen/Trump proposing "lets cancel the F-47 and buy the coked up F-35 in 5...4...3...
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Why would Trump propose that? He seemed, so far, very much on board with NGAD/F-47. I would argue it's the kind of project, aiming for domain dominance, that fits his understanding of US military power.
 
EmoBirb said:
Why would Trump propose that? He seemed, so far, very much on board with NGAD/F-47. I would argue it's the kind of project, aiming for domain dominance, that fits his understanding of US military power.
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We've seen past presidents do dumber things so it's less a statement about what he is or does and just an overall lack of faith that politicians in the US of A would actually do anything beneficial for defense instead of the absolute bare minimum.
 
BTW a heavily modified F-35 that directly addressed its power and cooling issues as a baseline may not need a new engine or engine core right away. I mentioned Boeings MRF as an alternative to the current F-35 program and future but a “F-35C with fuselage plugs and a new EPACS” (as a hard left limit) developed outside the F-35 JPO, does the same thing. Letting LM do it might be a way of letting them redeem themselves, and to get the most bang for buck.
 
“Development and production concurrency is Block 4′s most critical challenge, and we are dealing with its consequences today,” Schmidt said. “The F-35 [Joint Program Office], Lockheed Martin, and other industry partners have identified high risk concurrency in the F-35 Block 4 schedule, which would threaten to shut down aircraft production if development slips.”

Defense news

I’m not as smart as @Heatloss or @bring_it_on to say nothing of @quellish and I’m a failure as an analyst, but F-35 (as is stands now) is a status quo I would lever up to wager against. F-35 (again as it stands and defended/justified as a program) decoherence feels likely.
 
Training_Dummy said:
Letting LM do it
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Letting them do it? Lockheed will not develop a variant of the F-35 without a firm commitment from a customer. Ultimately, the F-35 is a DOD run program (run as a joint effort under the Joint Program Office). F-35 modernization and its future variants and technology insertions is ultimately controlled by its primary users. That is the US government. But even there, demand from the Marines would nearly completely go away once block 4 is wound down. Navy will buy its aircraft but ultimately transition to the F/A-XX in the mid 2030s. This leaves the USAF. and export users Lockheed can certainly invest a lot of its money into a future variant but it will not be without a much larger contribution from the paying customer. The F-35 will be the backbone of the US and most western air forces through the 2030s and 2040s. Assuming block 4 winds down in the early 2030s, this leaves some decisions to be made on modernization of the platform in the early to mid 2030s. A 5.5 generation level upgrade to the OML including addressing range, stealth and power/cooling and engine efficiency is not a bad idea thought such a double digit billion dollar RDT&E bill may not be possible given so many other priorities and may be seen as a threat to F-47, B-21 and other future programs. Alternate would be incremental upgrades via Block 5 which is already something that is in the planning stage.
 
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breakingdefense.com

F-35 Lot 18 'price increase' due to inflation, rising raw material cost: Pentagon - Breaking Defense

The rising costs have led to a row between Switzerland and the US, as Bern faces a $610 million increase for its order of 36 F-35As, a defense official told Breaking Defense.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com

F-35 Lot 18 ‘price increase’ due to inflation, rising raw material cost: Pentagon
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The rising costs have led to a row between Switzerland and the US, as Bern faces a $610 million increase for its order of 36 F-35As, a defense official told Breaking Defense.
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www.ekathimerini.com

Greece weighs additional F-35 jets | eKathimerini.com

Greece is weighing the purchase of additional F-35 fighter jets after 2030 instead of upgrading its fleet of 38 F-16 Block 50 aircraft, officials said Thursday, as negotiations with the US over the long-delayed modernization plan continue.
www.ekathimerini.com www.ekathimerini.com

Greece is weighing the purchase of additional F-35 fighter jets after 2030 instead of upgrading its fleet of 38 F-16 Block 50 aircraft, officials said Thursday, as negotiations with the US over the long-delayed modernization plan continue.

Athens is considering ordering eight to 12 more F-35 jets, on top of the 20 already under production for the Hellenic Air Force, with the first expected for delivery in 2028. Talks on the potential expansion of the F-35 fleet arose amid slow-moving discussions on the F-16 Block 50 upgrade, which have been under way for about five years.
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6.6 loads per aircraft (small loads at that). Isn't super massive for drone era.

It's perhaps more about how ridiculous were previous aircraft weapon loadouts. More like aircraft are now actually meant to be used by Belgians, rather than be additional aircraft to supplement USAF(working off USAF missile pool).
 
Grey Havoc said:
On the other hand, wartime ammo expenditures always get out of control.
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This isn't even any control.
I mean yeah, it's always possible to buy ammo like french(well below 1 meteor per rafale, and per current orders won't achieve 1 mica ng warload per fighter even by 2031), but this is in effect nuclear suicide airforce. It is incapable of any continuous warfare.
 
Ainen said:
This isn't even any control.
I mean yeah, it's always possible to buy ammo like french(well below 1 meteor per rafale, and per current orders won't achieve 1 mica ng warload per fighter even by 2031), but this is in effect nuclear suicide airforce. It is incapable of any continuous warfare.
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Without crashing off topic, if it was up to yourself, how would you go about reforming & expanding the Belgian Air and Space Component (ye old Belgian Air Force) to make it more flexible / survivable, might I ask?
 
Grey Havoc said:
Without crashing off topic, if it was up to yourself, how would you go about reforming & expanding the Belgian Air and Space Component (ye old Belgian Air Force) to make it more flexible / survivable, might I ask?
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They already did - current immediate contingency planning is indeed more ammo.
Depending on urgency - keep f-16 for a year more, proceed with emergency apkws order. Procure more SHORADs, asap; preferably using as much of similar ammo capacity as possible (sidewinder, apkws, manpad). Maybe something like VAMPIREs.

Long-term - find a way to rush MPP mission pod with rockets to F-35. Long-term, because it probably won't be able to outrun integration pipeline, i.e. will come more like 10 years from now, otherwise it should've been red priority.
 
So will Turkey finally get rid of the S-400s that was key to this whole issue in the first place? The ball is firmly in Turkeys court as the saying goes.
 
FighterJock said:
So will Turkey finally get rid of the S-400s that was key to this whole issue in the first place? The ball is firmly in Turkeys court as the saying goes.
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Turkey getting rid of Russian oil instead is likely Trump's plan. Probably even give them a cut-rate deal if they do that. But then what Trump says is easily done is often not easily done.
 

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