Lockheed Archangel A-1 (pre-SR-71)

Orionblamblam

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As promised elsewhere on the forum, I've started redrawing and posting the drawings of the Archangel series of SR-71 predecessors from Paul Suhler's book "From RAINBOW to GUSTO."

http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=4387

I have about two dozen drawings to create in total.
 

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Orionblamblam

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FYI... I've now added a high-rez version of the image to the blog posting. But to access it, you have to have a copy of the book.

If you own a copy of the book, these drawings should help you make it truly complete.
 

Skybolt

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After waiting two months, Amazon says me that the book is out of stock. Now I'm trying directly from AIAA, but their shipment costs are extravagant....
 

Orionblamblam

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Other sources...

Books-A-Million: http://www.booksamillion.com/product/9781600867125?id=4573550431725
(Appears to be back ordered)

Borders Books: http://www.borders.com/online/store/TitleDetail?sku=160086712X
(Backordered)

Powell's Books: http://www.powells.com/biblio/62-9781600867125-1
(Out of stock)

And there's always ebay.
 

Orionblamblam

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Lockheed B-2 configuration

The next in the series... the "B-2" configuration for a somewhat stealthier U-2.
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=4417
b-2_small1.gif


Much higher rez available at the link for owners of Suhler's book.
 

Antonio

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for owners of Suhler's book

Ordered my copy yesterday at Amazon...hope they could get a copy for me soon :p
 

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I was under the impression that A-1 just had turbojets mounted at mid-span, and the A-2 had ramjets on the wingtips with turbojets mounted mid-span
 

shockonlip

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Just got my copy from AIAA - took 8 days.

Nice!

Some of the FISH stuff is now published, that we've only
seen in thumbnails.

Some more Super Hustler stuff too.

Glad to see the FISH and KINGFISH models!

Pix are a little low in contrast in places, but nice to have them
anyway!

Been reading sections as well. It's a good read! Fills in a lot
of blanks and leads into some other things we discuss here from
time to time.

Also am amused by the decoding of the FISH acronym. Reminds
me of several neat conversations I was very fortunate to have
with one of my heroes. One of the greats!

Nice job Mr. Suhler. Another computer guy does good!
 

F-14D

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pometablava said:
for owners of Suhler's book

Ordered my copy yesterday at Amazon...hope they could get a copy for me soon :p

On Nov. 3 Amazon sent me an email asking me to confirm that I still wanted the book (ordered Oct. 5) by Dec. 3 or they'd cancel the order. Of course I told them to continue, but this is usually not a good sign, as sometimes the next message is they can't get it.
 

F-14D

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F-14D said:
pometablava said:
for owners of Suhler's book

Ordered my copy yesterday at Amazon...hope they could get a copy for me soon :p

On Nov. 3 Amazon sent me an email asking me to confirm that I still wanted the book (ordered Oct. 5) by Dec. 3 or they'd cancel the order. Of course I told them to continue, but this is usually not a good sign, as sometimes the next message is they can't get it.

For those of you who wonder if indeed the gods have a sense of humor, this message arrived 2 minutes after I made the above post:


Hello from Amazon.com.

We now have delivery date(s) for the order you placed on October 05 2009 :

Paul A. Suhler "From Rainbow to Gusto (Library of Flight)"
Estimated arrival date: November 20 2009 - November 30 2009
 

F-14D

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Orionblamblam said:
F-14D said:
For those of you who wonder if indeed the gods have a sense of humor...

Of course the gods have a sense of humor. How else can you possibly explain [insert political reference HERE]?

[insert political reference HERE] is not their sense of humor, it's their vengeance!
 

Orionblamblam

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Lockheed Archangel initial concept (pre-SR-71)

Here's the dinkysized version of the drawing for the initial Archangel design, the first Mach 3 concept.

archangel_small.gif

The vastly higher rez version can be downloaded here (assuming you have the book):
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=4501
 

OM

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Re: Lockheed GUSTO Model 1

Orionblamblam said:
The General Arrangement #2 (GUSTO Model 1):
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=4444
ga2_small.gif

....I smell a new FP kit in this one.
 

Orionblamblam

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Here's the "Peterbilt" tow plane (for the "ramjet kites"... the next drawings to come)
peterpilt_small1.gif


See here: http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=4539 for instructions on gettign the high-rez version.

From here on out, the designs start getting unconventional.
 

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Re: Lockheed "Ram Jet Kite" #1

Orionblamblam said:
Here's the "Ram Jet Kite" #1:
kite1_small.gif


See here: http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=4578 for instructions on getting the high-rez version.

Is this a sort of prequel for A21/D21 drones??
 

Orionblamblam

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Re: Lockheed "Ram Jet Kite" #1

archipeppe said:
Is this a sort of prequel for A21/D21 drones??

In a very roundabout way, perhaps. But this vehicle is manned, and far bigger.

Of course, later comes the D-33, which was manned, rocket powered, aircraft carrier-capable and clearly vaguely derived from the D-21.
 

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Re: Lockheed "Ram Jet Kite" #1

Orionblamblam said:
archipeppe said:
Is this a sort of prequel for A21/D21 drones??

In a very roundabout way, perhaps. But this vehicle is manned, and far bigger.

...Where, pray tell, old colleague, does the pilot sit?

(I've got to get this book for Christnukkah, as it appears to have a *lot* of the information I didn't have clearance for when I did my Habu research all those years ago...)
 

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Orionblamblam said:
Here's the "Peterbilt" tow plane (for the "ramjet kites"... the next drawings to come)
Wonderful Scott, thanks a lot! This is a very rare example of twin-booms justified by 4 central jets (the Vampire-class being 1 and the Vixen-class being 2). Great! ;D
 

Orionblamblam

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Lockheed "Ram Jet Kite" #2

kite2_small.gif


The second of the "ramjet kites." Note the human figure in front of the side view... this gives an indication of the size of the vehicle. To get the high-rez version with dimensions and areas, check it out here:
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=4600
 

mz

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Them thar ramjets with their low pressure ratios need to be big for enough thrust? Or what is going on? The wings are humongous as well. Some of the weirdest designs ever that were still somewhat close to serious...
 

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Anybody want to comment on the resemblance between the 'Gusto Model 1' and the Myasishchyev Subject 34 or M-17 Stratospere? Simply form following function, or something more sinister?
 

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jstar said:
Anybody want to comment on the resemblance between the 'Gusto Model 1' and the Myasishchyev Subject 34 or M-17 Stratospere? Simply form following function, or something more sinister?

It should be only a coincidental resemblance.
As far Myasischev OKB has long experience in twin boom configuration studies.

Taking into account the strict secrecy of Lockheed's environment it is difficult to think some espionnage-job for it.
 

Michel Van

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jstar said:
Anybody want to comment on the resemblance between the 'Gusto Model 1' and the Myasishchyev Subject 34 or M-17 Stratospere? Simply form following function, or something more sinister?

Same Problem:
the need of a very high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft operated over enemy country
Same Solution:
M-17 aka Myasishchev M-55 and Gusto Model 1

its like Rockwell B-1b and Tupolev Tu-160
the need of a low-level penetrator with long range and supersonic speed capability.
 

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Michel Van said:
its like Rockwell B-1b and Tupolev Tu-160
the need of a low-level penetrator with long range and supersonic speed capability.

Indeed there's an higher probability that B1 design really influenced Tupolev's work, exactly in the same way Shuttle affected Buran....
 

Orionblamblam

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Archangel II

http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=4671
a-2_small.gif


As of today, "RAINBOW to GUSTO" is available at:
Books-A-Million: http://www.booksamillion.com/product/9781600867125?id=4573550431725
Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Gusto-Library-Flight/dp/160086712X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254060873&sr=8-1
AIAA: http://www.aiaa.org/content.cfm?pageid=360&id=1789
 

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Indeed there's an higher probability that B1 design really influenced Tupolev's work, exactly in the same way Shuttle affected Buran....
Peppe, to set the record straight, the B-1 design influenced Myasishchev... the original Tupolev proposal for the Tu-160 competition was different. Then Myasishchev was ousted and Tupolev ordered to use their ideas, and lo the Blackjack....
 

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archipeppe said:
Indeed there's an higher probability that B1 design really influenced Tupolev's work, exactly in the same way Shuttle affected Buran....

Peppe, the alleged "policy of the mirror" implemented - in a number of Western analysts - from the USSR throughout the course of the Cold War to a more thorough analysis in a later period to 1989, was not as automatic as it seemed who assess events in the west with the worry of an interpretation on the moment to counter the enemy threat.

In reality it is clear that, technologically speaking, in the same historical period, thus using the same technological capabilities, similar problems produce similar solutions.

In this case, moreover, this occurred because the conceptual origin of technological advances in aerospace after the Second World War have the same conceptual matrix: the Nazi scientists who have worked since 1945 in the west that is beyond the Iron Curtain .
 

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Skybolt and rocketmen,

many thanks for your answers putting in line some common intrepretation mistake in cold-war era.

BTW it is possible to have more informations, and possibly, drawings about the original Tupolev proposal?
 

Skybolt

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A lot of them in Midland's Tupolev OKB, "Red Star" Tu-160, und so weiter... basically, Tupolev proposed a double delta derivative of the Tu-144. Interestingly, SST derivatives of sort were proposed by various companies during the AMPSS studies in 1963-64 in the US.
 

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Skybolt said:
A lot of them in Midland's Tupolev OKB, "Red Star" Tu-160, und so weiter... basically, Tupolev proposed a double delta derivative of the Tu-144. Interestingly, SST derivatives of sort were proposed by various companies during the AMPSS studies in 1963-64 in the US.

Thanks Skybolt, so the BAe idea of a "Concorde Bomber" was not so peregrine at the end....
 

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As long as you go in at high altitude in supersonic cruise, launch a stand-off (pretty much stand-off) missile and then run away, it could work.
 

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