Kongsberg Naval Strike Missile - NSM - Discussion

kqcke for you said:
Edit: I do believe this is probaly a political move to finance the development of JSM SL as a small offset to better the chances for some other programm. That said it would be the only option in europe with MdCN
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For the West at present for TT launch from subs its MdCN for land attack, and the very underwhelming SM39 Exocet.

As for developments we've got SM40 Exocet announced in 2024, heavier warhead than NSM-SL, but not stealthy and with a range of c120km...
Obviously NSM-SL as well...
There is also the Turkish Atmaca, which recently got launched from a sub. AShM and land attack capability.

Obviously the US has abandoned the TT launch space....Tomahawk, SiAW etc all vertically launched or using capsules (also dispensed vertically).

In that space its clear that if you want land attack that MdCN is the way to go....
But if you want a sub launched anti-ship missile with some land attack capability then NSM-SL is in a league of its own..
 
3 tube launched missiles being produced in Europe is some pretty impressive diversity all of a sudden !
When will this NSM-SL be deployable on subs ?

Sadly all 3 will remain subsonic. Is there not enough space to fit a hypersonic missile in a canister for tube launched missiles ?
 
Pepin said:
3 tube launched missiles being produced in Europe is some pretty impressive diversity all of a sudden !
When will this NSM-SL be deployable on subs ?

Sadly all 3 will remain subsonic. Is there not enough space to fit a hypersonic missile in a canister for tube launched missiles ?
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3 at present if you include Atmaca, which isn't operational on subs yet. But in terms of operational and on sale its just the 2 (SM39 Exocet and MdCN).

Presumably SM39 will go out of production if and when SM40 arrives.

NSM-SL doesn't exist yet, except in CGI.

In the future there will be 3SM Tyrfing and RJ10 FCASW...but it appears that neither will be suitable for Torpedo Tube launch. Whether or not they go into VL systems on future systems is an open question. IDAS will also have a land attack and anti-ship role, but at much shorter ranges and for much smaller targets.
 
Pepin said:
3 tube launched missiles being produced in Europe is some pretty impressive diversity all of a sudden !
When will this NSM-SL be deployable on subs ?
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It's technically a JSM-variant,** and eventually.

** NSM is 700mm wide/tall, JSM is 480mm*520mm.


Pepin said:
Sadly all 3 will remain subsonic. Is there not enough space to fit a hypersonic missile in a canister for tube launched missiles ?
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No. Hypersonic means a pretty big weapon, physically. And packing it into a 21" tube makes for a long weapon.

The CPS hypersonic missile is some 34.5" in diameter.

Torpedo tubes/stows in the USN are roughly 24ft long.
 
BonPlan2 said:
???
All exocet bloc 3 were studied with stealth in mind. May be not at the NSM level...
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It may have marginally reduced the RCS, but its not been designed from the ground up as LO.

Scott Kenny said:
No. Hypersonic means a pretty big weapon, physically.
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Depends what you want...the LM Mako concept would easily fit into a 21 inch TT in an encapsulation system as its only 13 inch diameter. The missile without booster is 13ft long, which leaves loads of space for the encapsulation, a booster and perhaps even a length extension for increased range. You'd have to assume that would give you a c150-200nm range at the least.
 
timmymagic said:
Depends what you want...the LM Mako concept would easily fit into a 21 inch TT in an encapsulation system as its only 13 inch diameter. The missile without booster is 13ft long, which leaves loads of space for the encapsulation, a booster and perhaps even a length extension for increased range. You'd have to assume that would give you a c150-200nm range at the least.
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Would it even reach Mach 5 in 150nmi from a surface launch?

I still think the USN is going to end up with something equivalent to ASALM for the high-supersonic or low-hypersonic weapon. Something that does M4 to M6.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Would it even reach Mach 5 in 150nmi from a surface launch?
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I think it could, its 13ft long. You've got an additional 10-11ft before you reach the limits. You only need a couple of feet at most for the encapsulation system, plenty of room for a booster and even a missile length extension for additional fuel.
 
timmymagic said:
I think it could, its 13ft long. You've got an additional 10-11ft before you reach the limits. You only need a couple of feet at most for the encapsulation system, plenty of room for a booster and even a missile length extension for additional fuel.
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Hrm. I wanted to use one of the Standard Missile boosters because they already existed; but SM2ER, SM3, and SM6 all use a 21" booster, the Mk72 rocket motor.

Are there any ~18" diameter boosters available? It needs to get to at least 10,000ft and over Mach 1 by burnout.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Are there any ~18" diameter boosters available?
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There is the Mk-70 booster used for the SM-2 Block I-III but I think that would be rather too long, on the other hand there's the R/UGM-84 launch-booster (I forget its designation) which is much more compact and it produce 12,000lb thrust for 2.9s.
 
NMaude said:
There is the Mk-70 booster used for the SM-2 Block I-III but I think that would be rather too long,
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We've got almost 10 feet/3 m of length to work with.

NMaude said:
on the other hand there's the R/UGM-84 launch-booster (I forget its designation) which is much more compact and it produce 12,000lb thrust for 2.9s.
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Assuming an 80fps starting speed when the capsule breaches the surface and 8 gees of acceleration over 2.9sec, that only puts the missile to 805fps at burnout. Still subsonic (~M0.8), and only about 2000ft up.

Nope, need a higher altitude at burnout, even if I'm still stuck subsonic. Want to clear 10kft before burnout to get above about half of the atmospheric drag.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Assuming an 80fps starting speed when the capsule breaches the surface and 8 gees of acceleration over 2.9sec, that only puts the missile to 805fps at burnout. Still subsonic (~M0.8), and only about 2000ft up.
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There is the RUM-139 VLA's Mk-114 launch booster which burns for 5 seconds at 11,000ib thrust. Or you could use a two-stage launch-booster arrangement with two stacked Harpoon launch-booster motors instead of one, or a Mk-114 with a Harpoon booster second stage.
 
Scott Kenny said:
We've got almost 10 feet/3 m of length to work with.
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But the Mk70 is effectively 13ft long. Nope, too long to work. Rats! :(

But 58,000lbs thrust for ~5.2sec is ... giggle-inducing for this role: staging speed of about 3300fps (~M3.0), and ~3000ft at burnout. Still a lot of Atmosphere to climb through, but you're starting at ~M3.0!



NMaude said:
There is the RUM-139 VLA's Mk-114 launch booster which burns for 5 seconds at 11,000ib thrust.
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That's a little better, that'll get you to about 1300fps (~M1.2) but still only around 1100ft.


NMaude said:
Or you could use a two-stage launch-booster arrangement with two stacked Harpoon launch-booster motors instead of one, or a Mk-114 with a Harpoon booster second stage.
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No thank you, one stage is all I want to deal with.
 
Scott Kenny said:
But the Mk70 is effectively 13ft long. Nope, too long to work. Rats! :(

But 58,000lbs thrust for ~5.2sec is ... giggle-inducing for this role: staging speed of about 3300fps (~M3.0), and ~3000ft at burnout. Still a lot of Atmosphere to climb through, but you're starting at ~M3.0!




That's a little better, that'll get you to about 1300fps (~M1.2) but still only around 1100ft.



No thank you, one stage is all I want to deal with.
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Well what one could do is having the capsule itself being a booster. Think like the design of Excocet SM40 but just a larger motor. Yes it would not be the most efficient solution but it could give a better starting point for the actual booster.
Or if we allow multiple one then just put about 6 NSM booster at top each other xD
Okay jokes aside maybe an PrSM motor would work? Yes the whole missile is 13 ft but based of images all of the fun stuff is about 1/3 of the missile so with only the motor something like around 9-10 ft seems possible and its quite an punchy motor.

But how about we put this into its own thread as we have come quite a bit from the actual theme of the thread...
 
Scott Kenny said:
No thank you, one stage is all I want to deal with.
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You could do a two-stage launch-booster with the first-stage being the Harpoon SRB and the Mk-114 for the second-stage, 12,000lb initial launch-booster for 2.9s followed by a sustained 11,000lb boost for 5s.
 
This would be interresting if true as i have never heard of NSM using PRS Seeker but it could be an Addition with the Block 1A standard or whatever the USA are cooking
www.australiandefence.com.au

BAE Systems wins missile sensor contract - Australian Defence Magazine

BAE Systems Australia has signed a $160 million contract to triple production of its advanced passive radio frequency sensorfitted to Kongsberg Joint Strike Missiles and Naval Strike Missiles | Max Bl...
www.australiandefence.com.au www.australiandefence.com.au
 
kqcke for you said:
This would be interresting if true as i have never heard of NSM using PRS Seeker but it could be an Addition with the Block 1A standard or whatever the USA are cooking
www.australiandefence.com.au

BAE Systems wins missile sensor contract - Australian Defence Magazine

BAE Systems Australia has signed a $160 million contract to triple production of its advanced passive radio frequency sensorfitted to Kongsberg Joint Strike Missiles and Naval Strike Missiles | Max Bl...
www.australiandefence.com.au www.australiandefence.com.au
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The PRF sensor began development in 2015, with Australian funding. So it's not really a new development.

www.airforce-technology.com

Kongsberg to upgrade joint strike missiles with RF-seeker sensors - Airforce Technology

Kongsberg Defence Systems has received a contract from the Australian Department of Defence to install its RF-seeker sensors on joint strike missiles (JSM) that will be carried on-board F-35 fighter aircraft.
www.airforce-technology.com www.airforce-technology.com
 
TomS said:
The PRF sensor began development in 2015, with Australian funding. So it's not really a new development.

www.airforce-technology.com

Kongsberg to upgrade joint strike missiles with RF-seeker sensors - Airforce Technology

Kongsberg Defence Systems has received a contract from the Australian Department of Defence to install its RF-seeker sensors on joint strike missiles (JSM) that will be carried on-board F-35 fighter aircraft.
www.airforce-technology.com www.airforce-technology.com
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Yeah but not for NSM. I know it allways was a development of JSM (honestly making it a Baby LRASM) but NSM? That was allways only its optical system.
 
kqcke for you said:
Yeah but not for NSM. I know it allways was a development of JSM (honestly making it a Baby LRASM) but NSM? That was allways only its optical system.
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The front end of JSM and NSM appear to be basically identical.

Took a little searching but I did find this, from last year.

BAE Systems Australia wins $160 million missile seeker contract | PS News https://share.google/Gd2BLj1JaCNKAZUGY
 
TomS said:
The front end of JSM and NSM appear to be basically identical.

Took a little searching but I did find this, from last year.

BAE Systems Australia wins $160 million missile seeker contract | PS News https://share.google/Gd2BLj1JaCNKAZUGY
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Would be interresting to know if its a fleet wide development or only for australia because this combined with whatever the USA is cooking for NEMESIS could make it quite a bit more capable.
 
A very nice shot of the JSM nose .... can clearly see the "ring" just behind the seeker window that enables the roll stabilisation of the seeker ....

www.facebook.com

Flak聊軍事

Konsberg發大財～ 近日，德國與挪威簽約，將採購NSM的空射版：JSM聯合打擊飛彈作為F-35的傳統打擊武器 另外，荷蘭也宣布將為法國設計的殺人鯨級潛艦配備JSM-SL潛射版作為長程打擊武器，而不是其巡防艦配備的美製戰斧，或是法國原廠的MdCN https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1EVPRw4CBQ/...
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
 
The picture below shows that the 4 fins are not 90deg apart from each other, and it seems the top 2 fins look "larger" than the bottom 2 fins.

Even if the 4 fins are assumed to be of the same size, the only way it looks different to me is due to the top 2 fins are "flatter", that is they lie at a lesser angle from the horizontal when compared with the bottom 2 fins? And there is no top/bottom halves symmetry.....

Is it an illusion that I am having?


file.jpg
 
zjz said:
The picture below shows that the 4 fins are not 90deg apart from each other, and it seems the top 2 fins look "larger" than the bottom 2 fins.

Even if the 4 fins are assumed to be of the same size, the only way it looks different to me is due to the top 2 fins are "flatter", that is they lie at a lesser angle from the horizontal when compared with the bottom 2 fins? And there is no top/bottom halves symmetry.....

Is it an illusion that I am having?


file.jpg
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I think the inlet-side fins are closer together at the base than the bottom fins. So they'd appear "smaller" (show the strongback-side fins) looking straight down at the inlet side like in the top images.
 
Scott Kenny said:
I think the inlet-side fins are closer together at the base than the bottom fins. So they'd appear "smaller" (show the strongback-side fins) looking straight down at the inlet side like in the top images.
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Arh, I see what you mean .... the cross section is not circular, and the pentogon shape-like fuseluge added on the illusion ....
 

Royal Navy Frigate Conducts First Launch of Naval Strike Missile​

www.navalnews.com

Royal Navy Frigate Conducts First Launch of Naval Strike Missile - Naval News

Royal Navy Type-23 Frigate, HMS Somerset (F82) conducted the first British test fire of a Naval Strike missile off the coast of Andøya Norway. The live fire took place during Operation Aegir 25, with British, Norwegian, and Polish Forces taking part. This launch marks the first instance of a...
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com

Perhaps this thread should be renamed to 'Kongsberg Naval Strike Missile - NSM - Discussion', since it's clearly about more than missile orientation??
 
Sticking to the original topic of this thread, here's a video from the Ægir-25 exercise showing NSM launch and hits from the Norvegian Skjold-class corvette and the Jelcz P662D.43 MLV truck of the Polish Navy, and at least one of the missiles seems to be flying with the air intake facing upwards when it hits:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1973463972876554420
 

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olek_z17 said:
and at least one of the missiles seems to be flying with the air intake facing upwards when it hits:
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I thought that missile rolled 180 degrees after launch so that its' air-intake was in the ventral position?
 
NMaude said:
I thought that missile rolled 180 degrees after launch so that its' air-intake was in the ventral position?
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That's what this whole thread was initially about:)
I recommend reading first 2 pages, but if I recall, the conclusion was that it can fly in either position. The seeker is stabilized along the roll axis anyways, so it doesn't really matter as far as target tracking goes.
 
Forest Green said:

Australia’s StrikeMaster conducts successful Naval Strike Missile test firing in Norway​

www.navalnews.com

Australia’s StrikeMaster conducts successful Naval Strike Missile test firing in Norway - Naval News

KONGSBERG and Thales announce today the successful live-firing of a Naval Strike Missile (NSM) test munition from the StrikeMaster missile launch vehicle in Norway.
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com

Missile looks weird here??
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"The test munition, known as a blast test vehicle (BTV) comprises the missile’s boost rocket motor and is used to confirm the safe launch of the NSM."
 

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