Jean Bart Unbuilt Projects

MODERATOR NOTE: please note the thread tittle: "Jean Bart aircraft carrier conversions", please note the tittle of the subform: "secret naval projects", then posting Jean Bart battleship photos in its built form is OFF-TOPIC.
 
Sorry, thought they served to show just how good a material condition they were in right into the 1960s.
 
I think the French Battleships 1922-1956 book by John Jordan and Robert Dumas have sketches on the missile battleship configuration on the last page. Will check.

Also am I understand correctly that Malaface would be the French Anti ship missile design based on V-1 and Hs-293?
 
Tzoli said:
I think the French Battleships 1922-1956 book by John Jordan and Robert Dumas have sketches on the missile battleship configuration on the last page. Will check.
Click to expand...
There's not, but a list of conversion projects on page 222 describing
Project 1: Modernisation of AA guns 1957
Project 2: Guided Missile Cruiser 1958 Solutions A to E
Project 3: Terrier Missile conversion

BTW, we're off-topic again.
Do you prefer to rename the thread as "Jean Bart unbuilt projects" or that thread split into "Carrier conversions" and "AA conversions"?
 
Tzoli said:
Also am I understand correctly that Malaface would be the French Anti ship missile design based on V-1 and Hs-293?
Click to expand...
It was rather... complex design, probably inspired by American "Kingfisher" series. It was a liquid-rocket powered missile, guided into target by manual radio commands (tracked by either radar or optical telescope) and armed with "diving" warhead, that was supposed to strike target below waterline. Essentially, it was a more primitive analogue of Soviet KsSH "Shyuka" missile.
 
Damn, my pictures are dead and there is no way of recovering them. A pity. I'd rather supress the dead links than having stupid red crosses, what you think ?
 
Top trick someone pointed out this week - if you click reply the images will load in the reply, so you can re-copy them from there.
 
Tzoli said:
Here is the relevant page from John Jordan and Robert Dumas's French Battleships book about the Jean Bart / Richelieu Missile conversion ideas:
Click to expand...
Ahh yes looks like I've already posted that page, but remembered wrongly that there are sketeches there. I wonder if there are sketches in the French archives?
 
About ten years ago, I had put into drawings the projects discussed on the future of the Jean Bart, which had ended up as a battleship in an incongruous and against all logic way... :confused:
The fifth drawing is a free study on the envisaged model of the USS Iowa after a discussion on another French-speaking forum.
 

Attachments

  • Jean Bart hybride avions.pdf
    441.9 KB · Views: 107
  • Jean Bart porte avions 3 vues.pdf
    846.9 KB · Views: 87
  • Jean Bart projet BLM.pdf
    333.1 KB · Views: 80
  • Jean Bart projet BCT.pdf
    348.4 KB · Views: 77
  • Cuirassé Jean Bart BLM stratégique.pdf
    591.9 KB · Views: 84
Does anybody know what kind of missiles were envisioned for the Jean Bart BBG conversions?
Based on the description the launcher was to be a simple ramp type so probably some sort of anti-ship missile?

Project 2: Guided Missile Cruiser (1958)

Solution A
– suppression of four 57mm ACAD on quarterdeck + associated director + FC station 1
– construction on quarterdeck of central missile hangar by extending the shelter deck to the
towing capstan; missiles to be stowed horizontally at 45 degrees to the centreline; capacity
24-44 missiles
– installation of three horizontal launch ramps on either side of the hangar
(This solution was considered simple and practical, requiring few structural modifications.
There was, however, some concern regarding possible concussion damage from the after
152mm guns.)

Solution B
– suppression of four 57mm ACAD on quarterdeck + associated director + FC station 1
– extension of the shelter deck as far as the towing capstan to form the roof of the missile
hangar, and removal of the upper deck beneath the hangar structure to permit the missiles
to be stowed vertically; capacity 75-150 missiles
– installation of six launch ramps with vertical reloading on the roof of the hangar
(This solution was attractive because of the much-increased missile capacity. There was
also considered to be less risk of concussion damage to the missiles from the after 152mm
guns than in Solution A.)

Solution C
– suppression of four 57mm ACAD on quarterdeck + associated director + FC station 1
– removal of upper deck and some crew accommodation for vertical stowage of missiles;
capacity 75-90 missiles
– installation of six launch ramps flat on the quarterdeck but with vertical reloading
(This solution was attractive because it minimised topweight additions, albeit at the expense
of crew accommodation. There was also considered to be less risk of concussion damage to
the missiles from the after 152mm guns than in Solutions A and B.)
Click to expand...

Solution D
– suppression of 380mm turret I and the two 57mm ACAD located on the forecastle
– extension of the shelter deck to the forward or after breakwater to provide missile stowage
and accommodation for the missile crews; eighty-five missiles to be stowed in the former
magazines and barbette + 125 missiles in the deckhouse
– three or four launch ramps
(There was concern regarding blast and concussion damage from turret II. The stowage of
125 missiles in the deckhouse was dependent on these concerns proving unfounded.)

Solution E
– suppression of both 380mm turrets to permit a taller and more capacious missile hangar
capable of stowing missiles vertically above upper deck level; extending this hangar to the
forward breakwater would give a capacity of 325 missiles (provided the hangar was
unarmoured)
– six or eight launch ramps
(Neither of the solutions involving the complete or partial replacement of the main guns by
guided missiles was seriously pursued because the NGS considered removal of the 380mm
gun turrets premature.)


Project 3: Terrier Missile Conversion
– removal of centreline 152mm turret
– installation of a US Mk 10 twin-arm missile launcher
– stowage for three missiles only beneath the launcher
(This installation was proposed only for the training of personnel. It was envisaged that the
missile launcher would be removed and the turret replaced following’ trials.)
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Tzoli said:
Does anybody know what kind of missiles were envisioned for the Jean Bart BBG conversions?
Based on the description the launcher was to be a simple ramp type so probably some sort of anti-ship misdile?
Click to expand...
My assumption - unfortunately, merely assumption - is that they were intended for land-attack SE-42XX series cruise missiles:

1774280495376.png

Unfortunately, those early French cruise missiles are rather obscure, despite being fielded at least till 1962.
 
Dilandu said:
My assumption - unfortunately, merely assumption - is that they were intended for land-attack SE-42XX series cruise missiles:

View attachment 806456

Unfortunately, those early French cruise missiles are rather obscure, despite being fielded at least till 1962.
Click to expand...
There are some interesting objects in this but barely any info:
 

Attachments

  • Association Aeronautique et Astronautique de France - Fusees des Annees Furia Francese.pdf
    4.5 MB · Views: 44
Here is the 1957 Project 1, the gun armament improvement proposal of Jean Bart where all the 100mm Modéle 1945 and 57mm Modéle 1951 guns were to be replaced by 100mm Modéle 1953 ones:
https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Jean-Bart-1957-Modernization-Proposal-1-1319524504
dltlzmg-4ea4cb20-a186-49bd-8858-89f4b24959b9.png
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom