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JADC YSX-75

hesham

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Hi,

during the early of 1990s,the Alenia developed the BAe One-
Eleven as 90-100 seat regional aircraft.

http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1991/1991%20-%203289.pdf
 

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Triton

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Stargazer2006

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Methinks these Japanese are trying to reinvent the DC-9 or the VC10... or perhaps the BAC 1-11? Ah, those Asians... Innovative and original, as ever... ::)
 

Sundog

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Stargazer2006 said:
Methinks these Japanese are trying to reinvent the DC-9 or the VC10... or perhaps the BAC 1-11? Ah, those Asians... Innovative and original, as ever... ::)

Why would you expect them not to go with a design that's proven successful? Don't forget, in the advanced air transport study for NASA for the year 2030, Northrop's submission is extremely conventional in configuration. It's the technology that goes into it that makes it advanced.
 

Triton

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Stargazer2006 said:
Me thinks these Japanese are trying to reinvent the DC-9 or the VC10... or perhaps the BAC 1-11? Ah, those Asians... Innovative and original, as ever... ::)

You could level the same complaint against the Dutch for the Fokker 70, 100, and 130 twin-engine regional jet airliners. According to Jane's All The World's Aircraft 1994-1995, an underwing engine configuration was possible for the JADC YSX.
 

hesham

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Also the old YS civil projects;

the YS-31 with two Dart RDa. 7/2s,the YS-12 with two Dart RDa.10s
and the YS-12-4 with four RDa.10s.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1959/1959%20-%201880.html?search=ys-12

For the YS-33 or YX projects,please see;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3749.0/highlight,japanese+project.html
 

hesham

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By the way,

for this projects,the NAMC studied 122 different configurations and the Society
of Japanese Aerospace Constructors recommended a twin-turbofan airliner with
75-100 seats.
 

taildragger

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Stargazer2006 said:
Methinks these Japanese are trying to reinvent the DC-9 or the VC10... or perhaps the BAC 1-11? Ah, those Asians... Innovative and original, as ever... ::)

A very insightful observation. The industry, after 60 years or so, has stagnated on 3 configurations (707, DC-9 and 737). We're bored with those shapes and should rise up to demand a return of exotica like wing-root nacelles, bicycle landing gear and crescent wings - all of which disappeared due to designers' lack of imagination and character. Anyone proposing an established configuration, just because they seem to work, should be harshly ridiculed. Rise up, Secret Projects readers, let's expose Boeing, Airbus and JADC for the hacks that they are. That'll teach 'em.
 

Stargazer2006

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taildragger said:
Stargazer2006 said:
Methinks these Japanese are trying to reinvent the DC-9 or the VC10... or perhaps the BAC 1-11? Ah, those Asians... Innovative and original, as ever... ::)

A very insightful observation. The industry, after 60 years or so, has stagnated on 3 configurations (707, DC-9 and 737). We're bored with those shapes and should rise up to demand a return of exotica like wing-root nacelles, bicycle landing gear and crescent wings - all of which disappeared due to designers' lack of imagination and character. Anyone proposing an established configuration, just because they seem to work, should be harshly ridiculed. Rise up, Secret Projects readers, let's expose Boeing, Airbus and JADC for the hacks that they are. That'll teach 'em.

Ha ha! Wish it were that simple! Actually it's not the fault of the designers. Take all Sonic Cruiser, "Klingon Cruiser", Spanloader or Diamond Wing airliner projects, for instance, and you'll see that the imagination is there. The only party at fault is the airlines themselves, who anticipate the frilosity of the travelers by selecting the safest, most unremarkable designs because they will reassure those customers. Every time an original airliner design was proposed, it ended up being shelved. Even Boeing's Dreamliner was a lot more stylish and original in the early development stages... With Concorde gone, and the Tristar and the MD-11 being no longer produced, the only slightly different airliner in the air right now is the A380. And even then, not shapewise, because it is still rather conventional.

Also, have you noticed that business jets tend to follow the same path? Original designs like the Starship, the Avanti, the JetCruzer, the Learfan were all doomed. We are now left basically of one or two similar general configurations...
 

taildragger

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Stargazer2006 said:
taildragger said:
Stargazer2006 said:
Methinks these Japanese are trying to reinvent the DC-9 or the VC10... or perhaps the BAC 1-11? Ah, those Asians... Innovative and original, as ever... ::)

A very insightful observation. The industry, after 60 years or so, has stagnated on 3 configurations (707, DC-9 and 737). We're bored with those shapes and should rise up to demand a return of exotica like wing-root nacelles, bicycle landing gear and crescent wings - all of which disappeared due to designers' lack of imagination and character. Anyone proposing an established configuration, just because they seem to work, should be harshly ridiculed. Rise up, Secret Projects forum members, let's expose Boeing, Airbus and JADC for the hacks that they are. That'll teach 'em.

Ha ha! Wish it were that simple! Actually it's not the fault of the designers. Take all Sonic Cruiser, "Klingon Cruiser", Spanloader or Diamond Wing airliner projects, for instance, and you'll see that the imagination is there. The only party at fault is the airlines themselves, who anticipate the frilosity of the travelers by selecting the safest, most unremarkable designs because they will reassure those customers. Every time an original airliner design was proposed, it ended up being shelved. Even Boeing's Dreamliner was a lot more stylish and original in the early development stages... With Concorde gone, and the Tristar and the MD-11 being no longer produced, the only slightly different airliner in the air right now is the A380. And even then, not shapewise, because it is still rather conventional.

Also, have you noticed that business jets tend to follow the same path? Original designs like the Starship, the Avanti, the JetCruzer, the Learfan were all doomed. We are now left basically of one or two similar general configurations...

Please excuse the sarcasm, I should probably stick to my day job and leave critiquing to others. There's a lot of worthwhile information and commentary on this forum - it just didn't seem to me that "it looks like a DC-9, the designers must be stupid - typical of their race" fits that description, even if intended humorously. Why clutter up the site with that sort of thing?
 

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didn't seem to me that "it looks like a DC-9, the designers must be stupid - typical of their race" fits that bill, even kiddingly - why waste the electrons?
Ditto.

<edit> Stéphane has clarified his position. My apologies for reading something in his reaction that wasn't there </edit>
 

Stargazer2006

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I NEVER used the word "race", nor meant anything with relation to race, ethnicity or such. I was merely refering to a cultural habit of copying (and often equaling, even improving upon) Western designs/products which has been the rule in Eastern Asia for almost a century.

1°) The Japanese purchased prototypes from many Western companies in the 1930s to reverse-engineer them, which they did successfully to the effect that they were able to defy the U.S. by 1941. Later on they did the same with eletronics and all manners of technology and became a world leader, often by improving on existing foreign inventions.

2°) The Chinese (whether in the motherland, Hong Kong or Taiwan) have been the World champions of illegal copy for decades now. Today they are accumulating all the knowledge, experience and know-how of Western companies they are subcontracting for to modernize/revolutionize their nascent capitalistic economy, and no doubt when it's over and we'll all have stuck our foot out of there they'll be in a highly competitive position with the West.

3°) The Koreans have been around for decades, and after years of producing lowere quality copies of Western or Japanese products, they have improved to such an extent that they are fast becoming the most innovative industrial power in Asia, outdoing Japan in many respects.

I feel extremely offended that you could associate my remark, however ironical (amused, rather) with a matter of "race". This was base and lame. You owe me an apology on this one. And Arjen, I'm disappointed that you so easily fell for this trick of distorting my words.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Methinks these Japanese are trying to reinvent the DC-9 or the VC10... or perhaps the BAC 1-11? Ah, those Asians... Innovative and original, as ever...

Your original statement says, when I read it -

1) A Japanese company were reinventing an old airplane concept (rear mounted engines)
2) Asian people are not innovative or original.

If you think this presumably you also think that Airbus has spent the last 40 years reinventing an old airplane concept (wing mounted engines) and that Europeans are also not innovative or original. Not the most insightful comment.

If you can't see how 2) can be seen as offensive to Asian people....

End of off-topic please.
 

Stargazer2006

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Being a fan of Japanese animation greats such as Osamu Tezuka, Leiji Matsumoto or Hayao Miyazaki, a lover of Thai and Chinese food and a great admirer of South Korean culture (on top of being very aware of China's rich millenial contribution to world culture) it would never occur to me to classify the Asian people as lacking originality and innovative spirit.

overscan said:
If you can't see how 2) can be seen as offensive to Asian people....

Yes, I guess I can, but that is because I failed to complete the sentence: "Ah, those Asians... Innovative and original, as ever when it comes to industrial design." My bad.

And, yes. I basically think that the Airbus family of aircraft is merely a copy of the Boeing formula, and that European airliner design is not very original on the whole and not very appealing... ATR family and Dornier 328 being notable exceptions.
 

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