Iranian Qaher-313 "indigenous fighter jet"

Dynoman

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Lower fuselage under cockpit.
 

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Dynoman

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F-313 with start cart.
 

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Dynoman

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A couple more of the cockpit.
 

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CiTrus90

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Almost like a Cessna 172...

::)
 

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Flyaway

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Jane's aren't impressed by it. :D

http://www.janes.com/article/69610/iran-shows-new-footage-of-f-313-stealth-fighter
 

FighterJock

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Flyaway said:
Jane's aren't impressed by it. :D

http://www.janes.com/article/69610/iran-shows-new-footage-of-f-313-stealth-fighter

From what I have seen in the article, Jane's are not impressed by the air intakes. :-\
 

Mike Pryce

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FighterJock said:
Flyaway said:
Jane's aren't impressed by it. :D

http://www.janes.com/article/69610/iran-shows-new-footage-of-f-313-stealth-fighter

From what I have seen in the article, Jane's are not impressed by the air intakes. :-\

They're right not to be. Vortices will kill the air flow into the engines.
 

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FighterJock

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I think that if Iran are really 100% for this fighter then they should redesign the air intakes with something far more traditional like the intakes of the F-35.
 

TomcatViP

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They're right not to be. Vortices will kill the air flow into the engines.
[/quote]

Delta fly with alpha. This is not a delta. It has a sharp nose with flat size. You don't know what could be the attitude of the fuselage in flight.
And, once again, IMOHO, this is more a "flying boat" (understand a boat flying) with a fluid flow slightly more dense than air (hence less vorticity). Given the discussion around the non moving nose wheel and rudders in turn on the ground, this "air"-frame can even be a towed model/glider.
 

r16

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newspapers in Turkey tell the appearance took place during a celebration of the achievements of the Defence Minister . Am not an Iran watcher so can't tell who is who but it was also in the news that the Revolutionary Guards wants "full command" of the economy . So , this is then a very democratic plane . My reputation to confuse and confound also seems to be on an upswing so what we see here is the fact that the export licence for the IR exhausts has not been given and Russians are already turning out fuselages and the simulator gear . And the sad thing is the hacking of computers have been reserved only for the Stavatti maiden , so that the faces of experts can be saved for posterity ...
 

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So unusual and strange, maybe it is a (WIG) wing in ground effect air vehicle to skim the surface and pop up attacks on naval targets. Much like a flying speedboat.

https://youtu.be/4_KaQ1n-TWE
 

AeroFranz

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WIGs need a very specific shape in order to work. Unless the Iranians have discovered new principles that escaped the Russians in their 70 years of experimentations, i would tend to say...no.
 

TomcatViP

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You know, we are discussing what cpould have been their intend with that design. Not gloryfying or acertaining their success.
The stealthy IGE (nearly a WiG but without being a seaplane) could be that. It matches their known strategy at sea (straights and Tanker war until they began to be producer again - hence the timing).
Then that it fly would be another question that doesn't belong to our discussion, no?
 

flateric

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kcran567 said:
So unusual and strange, maybe it is a (WIG) wing in ground effect air vehicle to skim the surface and pop up attacks on naval targets. Much like a flying speedboat.
BRKNG!
 

flateric

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Harrier said:
They're right not to be. Vortices will kill the air flow into the engines.
Well, let's give 'em a chance (F-117A flies with her vortex aerodynamics; Iranians had tested something in Fluent and even in windtunnel; impeller-driven model flies (somehow)).
Apparently I don't want to be a test pilot of F-313 though, but you are underestimating Allah influence on laminar flow.
 

Foo Fighter

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Seeing as the standard of entrants for the next Iranian fighter is so high I thought I would add mine to the mix and I will not even charge for my services. This new fighter is completely autonomous in all regards including a new technology engine that does not need inlets or exhaust.

As there is no need for a pilot there is no need for a computer, all they are good for is playing pong anyway and a pilot should keep their minds on the job rather than high scores. Also note the new era aerodynamics which take already honed technology to new heights and especially if launched from a high building, sorry, I mean a launching pad, can achieve its terminal velocity without supplementary assistance. capable of mach 19 when boosted by the eye-on engines which enable lights speeds approaching ouch velocity and only limited by the number first thought of powered by subtly enhanced fruit fuels allowed to mature in decently sized vats until ready for use.

Deny all alternatives, fly the new improved Br 13-S Series 1. You know it makes sense, and good housing too.
 

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kaiserd

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Foo Fighter said:
Seeing as the standard of entrants for the next Iranian fighter is so high I thought I would add mine to the mix and I will not even charge for my services. This new fighter is completely autonomous in all regards including a new technology engine that does not need inlets or exhaust.

As there is no need for a pilot there is no need for a computer, all they are good for is playing pong anyway and a pilot should keep their minds on the job rather than high scores. Also note the new era aerodynamics which take already honed technology to new heights and especially if launched from a high building, sorry, I mean a launching pad, can achieve its terminal velocity without supplementary assistance. capable of mach 19 when boosted by the eye-on engines which enable lights speeds approaching ouch velocity and only limited by the number first thought of powered by subtly enhanced fruit fuels allowed to mature in decently sized vats until ready for use.

Deny all alternatives, fly the new improved Br 13-S Series 1. You know it makes sense, and good housing too.

I've seen better bricks..........
 

Foo Fighter

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It IS only a prototype, I did not even get time to add a chip, sorry, pilot.
 

galgot

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Don’t understand the logic…
I Mean, if this thing can’t fly, and good chances it can’t, why bothering doing a engined rolling mockup ?
Are there elections in Iran ? Domestic propaganda ?

Edit: Ah yes, some elections there soon. Still, strange ways... Oh well, politicians must know what they are doing... ::)
 

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I really don't understand why all the dismissive and derogatory comments, we are better than this. surely its good that there is an unveiled mock up (whatever its source nation) iv seen some pretty duff designs coming from 'western' sources which don't seem to have the same knee jerk reaction.
Id love to see more forum members joining from smaller nation states who are working on such projects wither at university or in their aerospace industry sharing their work (if publically accessible)

cheers, Joe
 

Hood

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My theory is that it may be a real programme.
The first version was obviously only a static mock-up. This taxiable version has quite a few differences from the original and is obviously a progression to a more usable airframe. Going by the amount of stenciling etc. and its functional nature (i.e. the 50psi nosewheel pressure is not a 'faked' imitation of a real stencil but is meant for its groundcrew) its probably not just a propaganda throw-away tool. They may have put a jet engine in it for a taxi trial that looks and sounds like the real thing for a propaganda video but its my hunch that this airframe is perhaps meant as a glider prototype. I doubt Iran has the latest wind tunnel and CAD tools to design something this odd and ambitious based on computer modelling and wind tunnel models alone. It's quite possible they want to test the aerodynamics as a glider. It even possible the jet engine(s) are small turbojets/fans are a get you home tool (I'm thinking of the H.P.115 in concept).
Its possible that a third real prototype when it emerges will have just as many further changes as this example has over the original mock-up, it may even look quite different. Whether it will ever reach production is another matter. Those F-5 based designs a decade or so ago seem to have vanished without trace. Its always possible of course the real 313 that emerges might be a heavily cosmetically altered F-5 in reality.

I assume the undercarriage has been recycled from another aircraft? I wonder how much of the structure is based on an existing light aircraft design? Might explain the fat wing?
 

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Joking aside, I agree that it was intended as a serious program. The problem is that it seems to have had suffered more than it's fair share of mismanagement and/or political interference from up on high.
 

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Wonder if it will have an internal weapons bays like the other fifth generation stealthy fighters?
 

galgot

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Being curious about that nice landing gear (compare to the rest). main gear geometry looks a lot like the L-15 or Yak-130 ones.
Qaher ones look lot less "loaded" though.
 

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Nose gear looks like an L-39's, which would make sense, considering the possibility that differential braking was used for taxiing demonstration (i.e. rudder did not appear to move while taxiing). Also, it looks as though the mockup contained an airspeed indicator and hand controller from a PC-9, which is in the Iranian AF inventory. The problem of squandering funds for aerospace projects in Iran, the lack of modern design tools and programs, and the demands their leadership makes on producing an indigenous design must put a lot of pressure on its designer(s) (Hassan Parvaneh and others). Putting unfinished mockups and aircraft out in front of the public's eye before their ready probably comes from the upper echelon of the Iranian military/aerospace officials (AIO).
 

CiTrus90

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I've checked pictures of all the aircraft the IRIAF has (and had) in service, but I've found none matching with the landing gear of the Qaher. Closest thing I've found for the main gears seems to be the design of the Fajr F.3 gears, but again, it's similar but not a match.
Interestingly, a thought dawned on me while looking at the pictures: the Qaher has no doors for its frontal landing gear ;D
 

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Useful background reading:
http://kayhan.london/fa/1395/11/04/deception-corruption-in-irans-defense-industries/
 

DWG

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I've been staring at the wing-chine junction in the video as it taxis past at the 33s and 40s marks, and particularly at the camera pan along the length at 1:46s. It's not as bad as I first thought, the canard keeps getting in the way and misleading my eye as to the edge of the chine, but it does look like the chine merges into the wing an inch or two above the forward-most part of that fat leading edge, apparently creating an interesting little niche between the two. The airflow and RCS issues around that must be interesting (in the Chinese rather than Persian sense of the word).

The detail finish of the cockpit bow at 2:41 is also interesting, it almost looks like you could hook a fingertip under it at the top of the arch.

Two related observations to the actual in-motion shots. Compare the stability of the 313 with other recent sets of taxi trials (X-2, JC-31, J-20, T-50). There is very little rocking of the aircraft with respect to the undercarriage legs, there's a tiny touch of roll as it rounds that turn, and I think the nose dips fractionally at one point, but it's significantly less than for other aircraft at a supposedly similar stage of development, which I suspect argues for a very light structure that simply doesn't generate the momentum to compress the gears. And related to that, I don't see any movement of any of the flight control surfaces at all. The rudders are mentioned in the Janes article, but the canards don't appear to move either. It's difficult to see detail with black on black, but I'd expect at least some motion if the FCS was active.

Turning to the cockpit, I hope they've found room to squeeze in a second HDD in comparison to the mock-up. Because with no HUD or HMS, and the HDD therefore the primary flight instrumentation, trying to fly the aircraft while simultaneously looking at the imagery from the EO turret, and at any radar imagery, is going to be an interesting juggling task.

I don't think we can reject it outright, but it's clear that what it is, and what it was built up to be, are two very different things.
 

flateric

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CiTrus90 said:
I've checked pictures of all the aircraft the IRIAF has (and had) in service, but I've found none matching with the landing gear of the Qaher. Closest thing I've found for the main gears seems to be the design of the Fajr F.3 gears, but again, it's similar but not a match.
Interestingly, a thought dawned on me while looking at the pictures: the Qaher has no doors for its frontal landing gear ;D
It had actually but they are closed (kinda opened in FLG leg transition _may be_)
 

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Dynoman

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A better look at the landing gear.
 

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Dynoman

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What Dynon has remarked on its website. Dynon is the producer of some of the avionics that appeared in the mockup.

"It is described as a stealth fighter built with advanced materials, a very low radar signature and with low-altitude operations capability. It was also claimed that the Qaher can take off and land on short runways and has "easy maintenance". Qaher has a payload capacity of carrying two 2000 pound bombs, or greater number."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nWZ4jx32Sw0J:broom02.revolvy.com/main/index.php%3Fs%3DDynon%2520Avionics+&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
 

Dynoman

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Here is a concept art piece of the aircraft (looks like fan art) of a larger F313. A couple of blogs suggest that the experimental F313 seen taxiing is a scaled experimental aircraft designed to test aerodynamics for a larger operational vehicle. This larger concept art is configured with external stores, most likely reducing its stealthiness. Also an internal weapons bay under the inlet is also visible. (Posted here instead of the Art section of SPF to show the depiction of a larger F313, possible configuration, and location of an internal weapons bay. If you need to move it, no offense taken).
 

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kaiserd

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Dynoman said:
Here is a concept art piece of the aircraft (looks like fan art) of a larger F313. A couple of blogs suggest that the experimental F313 seen taxiing is a scaled experimental aircraft designed to test aerodynamics for a larger operational vehicle. This larger concept art is configured with external stores, most likely reducing its stealthiness. Also an internal weapons bay under the inlet is also visible. (Posted here instead of the Art section of SPF to show the depiction of a larger F313, possible configuration, and location of an internal weapons bay. If you need to move it, no offense taken).

Not if it's just me but the left and right wings look out of proportion to each other, while the asymmetric weapon load is unusual, particularly for what would be essentially a small fighter design.
Hence appears to very much fan art territory.

As discussed above I think there is a lot of scepticism about if such a design is really within the capacities of the Iranian aviation industry.
A scenario of licenced assembly of Su-30 family member with gradually increasing Iranian content would appear to be more realistic.
 

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kaiserd said:
Not if it's just me but the left and right wings look out of proportion to each other, while the asymmetric weapon load is unusual, particularly for what would be essentially a small fighter design.
Hence appears to very much fan art territory.
The image seems to show a forward swept wing aircraft. That would account for much of the 'out of proportion' look of it.
As you say, it appears to be in fan art territory.
 

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Arjen said:
[...]As you say, it appears to be in fan art territory.
Yes, this fanart of a larger Qaher-313 is based on the fictional ASF-X Shinden II for the Ace Combat flight simulation action video game series. ;) ;D
Source: https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21660
 

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