Iranian Qaher-313 "indigenous fighter jet"

Eagle2009

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Gents,

Just as an FYI, even sites like the IMF have largely agreed this was a sub-scale mockup, hence its small size, so there is really no need to continue discussing that point. Also, for those interesting in following Iranian defense events, I highly recommend you NEVER read the articles from their major news outlets. Even pro-Iranian sites mock how badly they screw up every announcement. Sites like the one I posted below are much better. For one, their indepth stories are rarely translated into English (which is nice & annoying) and include images that have rarely been published before. Some examples including articles discussing various Iranian UAV projects (including several excellent images and specs for the Iranian version of S. Africa's Lark drone) and future submarine concepts.

As a whole, Iran's aviation industry is very ambitious. The problem is politics. The Iranian government largely gave up on the idea of having a conventional and powerful AF over a decade ago and has since embraced the idea of unconventional warfare on nearly all fronts and the IRIAF has suffered badly for it. They do allow funding for maintaining the current fleet and keep toying with the idea of major upgrade projects (such as the F-4D upgrade) but in the grand scheme of things, the Iranian government doesn't provide funding to aviation projects because it seems to see it as a low-priority. This is why Iran has so many more active Air Defense related projects in production or in the works, this is where they are investing their money. It's not the worst strategy considering that fact that the IRIAF wouldn't stand a chance against most of Iran's would-be opponents. Thus, Iranian leadership have decided that Air Defense systems are a better investment than upgrading the IRIAF and personally I would have to agree...

One of the first articles in Farsi about the F-313 (which had 50 points of interests, 10 of which found their way the article a few posts above) mentioned that the aircraft would be "<16 meters" in length. If taken to be an accurate description of the final product (should the concept ever make it that far), then the weights given the article make much more sense (which were also mentioned in the same article).

Here is the link to said article. I have to warn ya though, I don't read Farsi and thus had to read the English translation via Google (which is rarely any good) but the dimensions and weights are fairly easy to ready:

http://www.mashreghnews.ir/fa/news/190868/50-%D9%86%DA%A9%D8%AA%D9%87-%D9%85%D9%87%D9%85-%D8%A7%D8%B2-%D8%AA%D8%AC%D9%87%DB%8C%D8%B2%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D9%88-%D8%B7%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AD%DB%8C-%D8%AC%D9%86%DA%AF%D9%86%D8%AF%D9%87-f313-%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%B9%DA%A9%D8%B3

JFC Fuller,

FYI, the "Azarakhsh" with mid-mounted wings is a well-documented PS'd image published by the Iranian media, it's not a real concept or design. The idea for mid-mounted wings on a F-5 is not technically new (there is a thread here somewhere with models from Northrop showing such a concept) but the sole image of this "Azarakhsh" is bogus.
 

hesham

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Nils_D said:
Iranians speak farsi, not arabic.


At the tail fin,they wrote (قاهر),and that is by Arabic language,means as I said; invincible.
 

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Eagle2009

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To fair gents, it's not like they claimed that image was of it actually flying..It's just a promotional image. They did much the same thing with the original Saeghe prototype/demonstrator nearly a decade ago. The Iranian media as a whole are rubbish promoters of everything..
 

flateric

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"first reaction of technical committee"



ed09c258df5f.jpg
 

Stargazer2006

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Orionblamblam said:
For the moment. That whole region is so screwy that one can hope that by a century hence, the borders of Greater Israel will stretch from India to Morocco, from Constantinople to Somalia.

Though not personally involved in the area nor sharing any Middle East blood, I feel offended by such a politically abject remark. The least thing we need in today's world is for a nation to hold such highly expansionist views. If didctatorship is the price to pay for peace, then you probably regret a great number of former empires...
 

Stargazer2006

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TaiidanTomcat said:
I wonder how much they wasted on this mock up? It probably employed tens of people for a couple weeks, so there's that.

What I do wonder myself is how many of these will be executed once the Ahmadinejad finds out his supposedly fearful "invincible" fighter is actually such a laugh to military observers worldwide...
 

mkurt

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Somebody on Acig.org, probably a former Air Force officer and a serious opponent of the regime, says a single guy did it for 20,000 USD, or the equivalent. He was known to the authorities as he had previously built a lifesize F-5 as a monument.
 

2IDSGT

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Stargazer2006 said:
TaiidanTomcat said:
I wonder how much they wasted on this mock up? It probably employed tens of people for a couple weeks, so there's that.
What I do wonder myself is how many of these will be executed once the Ahmadinejad finds out his supposedly fearful "invincible" fighter is actually such a laugh to military observers worldwide...
It's probably his own fault that it's such a laughingstock. My guess is that the *engineers* were cringing as the photographers snapped their closeups during his visit. Someone might have even tried to warn him, but he was probably too ignorant to realize how easy it would be for experts to pick the thing apart as a fake with so much detail.
 

Grey Havoc

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I think you may have pretty much hit the nail on the head there.
 

mkurt

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Acig.org has it that the guy in charge of the company that's behind has been sacked. Not clear whether it is a miserable design or Teheran loved the incentives in the Nuclear talks.
 

Deino

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;)

http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/Qaher313Page.htm

Deino
 

XP67_Moonbat

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IRT to the actual Qaher, I'd like to quote the late, great Sammy Davis Jr. in the timeless classic CANNONBALL RUN:"Why don't you take that piece of s**t back to the junkyard." ;D
 

Deino

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Via https://twitter.com/alert5/status/404422153992278016/photo/1 ;)
 

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hesham

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My dears and my friends,


Iran is learning in this aircraft,personally I give it 5 on 10.
 

Deino

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Via CDF:

According to Iranian members on Tom's ACIG, the CEO of IACI was charged and removed from this position as a result of Qaher-313 fiasco.
 

sienar

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Supposedly nearing production ::)

https://theaviationist.com/2017/03/07/qaher-f-313-tehrans-homemade-stealth-jet-in-final-production-stage-irans-defense-minister-claims/
 

Deino

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sienar said:
Supposedly nearing production ::)

https://theaviationist.com/2017/03/07/qaher-f-313-tehrans-homemade-stealth-jet-in-final-production-stage-irans-defense-minister-claims/


;D Never ...
 

UpForce

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I guess covering the whole project in a great pile off bullpucky could be construed as a form of stealth. Not for a functioning fighter plane, though.
 

Zoo Tycoon

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The top picture in the link article is just hilarious. Take a closer look and you will see they're moving the thing around by towing a trolley, with the nose landing gear held onto it with a ratchet strap over the cockpit. More ratchet straps can be around the rear fuselage and wing. They all look a bit random to me, more like a driver told to just get it moved.
 

Orionblamblam

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FighterJock said:
Perhaps Iran were being serious about this plane after all. :eek:

Perhaps... but if so, they'd better get serious about getting a cockpit canopy you can actually see clearly through. This one is still wavy and bumpy. it's be like trying to see through a canopy covered in jello.
 

Mike Pryce

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Maybe the only way to see how real it is would be to steal one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqylqS03C4o
 

AeroFranz

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Curious choice of twin engine on such a tiny aircraft...are they re-using J-85s?
 

GTX

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AeroFranz said:
...are they re-using J-85s?

That would be my guess.

I suppose it could be a 'stealthy' (and I use that term extremely loosely here) light attack aircraft in the same class as a F-5. Is there also a chance it is a sub-scale demonstrator? Either way, taxi tests are one thing. Let's see it fly.
 

kaiserd

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GTX said:
AeroFranz said:
...are they re-using J-85s?

That would be my guess.

I suppose it could be a 'stealthy' (and I use that term extremely loosely here) light attack aircraft in the same class as a F-5. Is there also a chance it is a sub-scale demonstrator? Either way, taxi tests are one thing. Let's see it fly.

Not sure I'd want to be that pilot.
Anyone have any idea of the proposed armament of this thing?
The configuration and very small size would suggest small loads and possible asymmetric load issues.
Appears to be non-after-burning J85s.
 

TomcatViP

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Possibly a kamikaze design with only an automatic ctrl mode for terminal guidance. The high seating position favoring last second/low alt/low tech ejection.
 

TomcatViP

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What do you think those speed boats are for?
This is just a logical upgrade: IGE (WiG), favorable salt water updraft, stealthy nose, dug in inlets and nozzles and an alibi for not be a complete kamikaze weapon (pilot egress).
 

kcran567

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Subscale demonstrator like mentioned above? It seems the Iranians are "improving" the design so there is progress. Armed with a gun and some missiles it could be used to attack carriers or ground targets.

The Iranians seem to have some basic aerospace ability (their new trainer) so why not attempt something really interesting like a half sized J-20.
 

Rickshaw

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kcran567 said:
Subscale demonstrator like mentioned above? It seems the Iranians are "improving" the design so there is progress. Armed with a gun and some missiles it could be used to attack carriers or ground targets.

The Iranians seem to have some basic aerospace ability (their new trainer) so why not attempt something really interesting like a half sized J-20.

No, no, you need to get with the vibe. You need to underestimate anything done by the Iranians and deride it because they are Muslims and they all hate America... ::)
 

CiTrus90

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Just a couple of thoughts that came in my mind while looking at the pictures and video.

Most recognizible changes from the old mockup:
qaher-313-image01.jpg

qaher-313-image03.jpg

q-313-image36.jpg


Vehicle seems to be slightly bigger in overall dimensions.
Single engine has been discarded in favor of twin engine configuration.
Canopy is now in two pieces rather than a single one.
Main and frontal landing gear have been changed. Frontal landing gear has two coupled wheels now.
White area in front of the cockpit on new vehicle suggests presence of an onboard radar, however no panel lines are visible. The only antenna on the aircraft is placed behind the cockpit.

Engines seem to be smaller than J-85s and quieter too. Might actually be Toloue-4 (Microturbo TRI-60), but I'm not sure about it.
q-313-image32.jpg


Have already seen that EO turret before, on the Sadegh UCAV:
F-313-new-tests-2.jpg

iran_sadegh-1.jpg


I cannot recognize the ejection seat, and looking at the high res picture it looks to be a solid piece of fiberglass rather than an actual seat. It's clearly not the same seat used in the old single engine mockup of the Qaher, and vaguely resembles a K-36D with telescoping booms which fit in the cylinders near the shoulder area:
919470_452.jpg

Old seat:
qaher-313-image04.jpg

K-36D:
k36drs.JPG


Cockpit is never shown. From side pictures it appears to be still pretty small and basic, much of the same size of the single engine mockup. No HUD is visible.

No access panel is visible, overall airframe appears to be made out of fiberglass, much like the mockup. Steering on the ground during taxi test seems to be achieved via differential braking and throttle adjustments. Flight surfaces do not move. Frontal landing gear doesn't appear to be steering.

The only way this vehicle might make some sense would be to make it pilotless. It's definitely too small to be either a fighter or an attack aircraft. Removing the pilot and the associated life support systems may free enough space to carry better sensors and some limited amount of ordnance.
However, there doesn't seem to be provision for internal carriage of weaponry, which, coupled with the weird geometry of the aircraft, casts serious doubt about the stealthiness of the vehicle.

Overall conclusion: this is definitely far from a production aircraft. It may either be a technology demonstrator (if it's ever going to achieve flight and several important modifications are implemented) or it's just a nice propanganda tool for international and internal consumption.

At the moment I lean on the latter hypothesis.
 

r16

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syrians lost more than a few planes and helicopters near Turkish borders . At least we hear the claims only when there are crashes , even if no HUD video has ever appeared . Ditto for unmanned option but it flies an human observer at possible zones of fire . Life is cheap in the East and datalinks not so secure , am ı right ? But then we have been assured by Key Forums that there are no controls moving hence it doesn't fly . Will obviously be ready when Iran's turn for Democracy comes .


ı see Motocar has not linked his cross section here yet and coincidence of the micro fighter just above . ı would be so tempted to discuss that as a Kamikaze ...
 

Dynoman

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Different angle on cockpit and ejection seat headrest.
 

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