General Dynamics F-16/79

[afran]

I like this bird nice colors. i think that this rare bird should have topic.
Do sombadey know performernce charts or something beyond wikipedia .
Did this stuff realy work i meam with F-4 nations.Two fighter one engine.
Is this bird that bad.

 

[Steve Pace]

I like this bird nice colors. i think that this rare bird should have topic.
Do sombadey know performernce charts or something beyond wikipedia .
Did this stuff realy work i meam with F-4 nations.Two fighter one engine.
Is this bird that bad.

You can try Code One magazine online. Or F16.net -SP

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

It was a deliberate downgrading of the F-16, which would only have worked if the F100 engined version remained unavailable for export. Once controls on the original version were relaxed it was dead in the water. It would have been a little cheaper to buy, but worse in every other respect.

 

[r16]

worked hard to stick the THK with that one , then naturally they had to bribe the entire Air Force Command to get the 'A , which then somehow mutated to the C-30 . All due to the fact that PW kinda failed to provide the power on time on demand . Any whif model should include Turkish markings as standart .

 

[Grey Havoc]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2CZodHIc68

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When President Carter forbade the export of top grade military equipment, he didn't realise that his good intentions would not be reciprocated. So the United States initiated the FX program to develop an export fighter for their Allies. The F-16/79 was one of those aircraft.

From the comments thread:

Jim Daniel​

1 week ago
A blast from the past! As a young engineer, I was assigned to the structural modifications the F-16B to turn it into the F-16/79. I designed the titanium fairing that extended aft of the existing fuselage, the engine mount modifications, some cockpit structural mods, and the 440 lbs of depleted Uranium ballast needed on the station 88 bulkhead needed for balance. It was an exciting opportunity and I still have my F-16/79 team member plaque.

EDIT: Note that the F X program should not be confused with the USAF's FX (also known as F-X) program that led to the F-15 Eagle.

 

[Keyboard Commando]

Is it true the F-16/79 was offered to mainland China in the early 80s?

 

[RAP]

Some info from GD document comparing F-16/79 to Northrop F-5G.

 

[Archibald]

Some info from GD document comparing F-16/79 to Northrop F-5G.

The amount of bad faith in that document, really...

 

[yasotay]

Some info from GD document comparing F-16/79 to Northrop F-5G.

The amount of bad faith in that document, really...

Standard practice, unfortunately

 

[Keyboard Commando]

Despite the lower performance I've always like the F-16/79, cool in an anachronistic way.

 

[GTX]

Despite the lower performance I've always like the F-16/79, cool in an anachronistic way.

Likewise. I would love to model it too. There was this kit available but it is rare as. Not aware of any conversions either.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Is it true the F-16/79 was offered to mainland China in the early 80s?

It was. However the Chinese didn’t want the watered down version but either way it was way too expensive for the PRC during the 80s.

 

[Keyboard Commando]

Is it true the F-16/79 was offered to mainland China in the early 80s?

It was. However the Chinese didn’t want the watered down version but either way it was way too expensive for the PRC during the 80s.

Do you have any more information about this?

 

[kaiserd]

Any sources for those claims?

The F-16/79 was probably offered to Taiwan aka “Republic of China”, as was the then F-5G (which Taiwan wanted but which were blocked following lobbying from the PRC).

Not totally impossible there was some kind of offer to the PRC given relations with the US (& the USSR) at the time but not clear if the PRC could have afforded it at the time (appeared to be prioritising limited available budget on update of existing domestic airframes with US or other Western sourced equipment).

More information welcome.

 

[RAP]

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[RAP]

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[bercr]

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Wow... Fantastic photos! Really great stuff.

 

[Kiltonge]

First overseas pilot to fly the 16/79 was Austrian air force chief test pilot Col Josef Bernecker, who flew it three times in late 1980. He was evaluating it against the 16A and the Mirage 50. The Mirage 'won' the competition on account of a 130% offset proposal from Dassault, but it all fell through on account of funding.

 

[Kiltonge]

Grainy photo from Flight, 26 November 1983 showing the F-16/79 as proposed for the USN Aggressor role with fixed starboard-side refuelling probe and Mig-23 silhouette camouflage

 

[F-2]

Shame there wasn’t a more suitable ramjet for it with more comparable thrust.

 

[Archibald]

First overseas pilot to fly the 16/79 was Austrian air force chief test pilot Col Josef Bernecker, who flew it three times in late 1980. He was evaluating it against the 16A and the Mirage 50. The Mirage 'won' the competition on account of a 130% offset proposal from Dassault, but it all fell through on account of funding.

You know the F-16/79 was a bad deal when Dassault doesn't pitch the 2000 nor even the F1, but the ultimate Mirage III development, against it... then again, why not ? a castrated F-16 with a F-104 engine, vs an evolved Mirage...

And I red AustrALian rather than Austrian, and was wondering WTF the RAAF wanted to buy moar Mirage III almost 20 years after the III-O deal, and so close from the Hornet deal.

In the end, Austria got Drakens so Dassault - close, but no cigar.

 

[F-2]

First overseas pilot to fly the 16/79 was Austrian air force chief test pilot Col Josef Bernecker, who flew it three times in late 1980. He was evaluating it against the 16A and the Mirage 50. The Mirage 'won' the competition on account of a 130% offset proposal from Dassault, but it all fell through on account of funding.

You know the F-16/79 was a bad deal when Dassault doesn't pitch the 2000 nor even the F1, but the ultimate Mirage III development, against it... then again, why not ? a castrated F-16 with a F-104 engine, vs an evolved Mirage...

And I red AustrALian rather than Austrian, and was wondering WTF the RAAF wanted to buy moar Mirage III almost 20 years after the III-O deal, and so close from the Hornet deal.

In the end, Austria got Drakens so Dassault - close, but no cigar.

I wonder how F-16/79 would have done in 1959.

 

[Archibald]

You would need analog fly-by-wire. Then again, the Avro Arrow had it, that year... otherwise: F-104C is the closest thing.

 

[F-2]

You would need analog fly-by-wire. Then again, the Avro Arrow had it, that year... otherwise: F-104C is the closest thing.

That’s why I picked that year. I think the A-5 had it too along with a visual HUD.

 

[Kiltonge]

I've only found a few taxying videos on YouTube, so the great question remains unanswered: did the F-16/79 howl like a Starfighter?

 

[Darthtabby]

Some info from GD document comparing F-16/79 to Northrop F-5G.

The amount of bad faith in that document, really...

I generally suspect comparisons of one manufacturer's product to a competitor's product of being misleadingly selective with their datapoints, but as someone who is far from being an expert about fighter jets I'm curious what specific elements are bad faith/misleading (or even outright wrong) in this particular case. I'm guessing maybe the part that implies the F-16 is capable of pulling 9Gs while carrying heavy loads?

 

[F-2]

Some info from GD document comparing F-16/79 to Northrop F-5G.

The amount of bad faith in that document, really...

I generally suspect comparisons of one manufacturer's product to a competitor's product of being misleadingly selective with their datapoints, but as someone who is far from being an expert about fighter jets I'm curious what specific elements are bad faith/misleading (or even outright wrong) in this particular case.

If your interested you can calculate the turn performance to get a more realistic idea how they compare.

View topic - F-16 vs MiG-29 energy maneuverability from test report • F-16.net

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You would just figure what the weight should be for an F-16/79 would be (and F-16a with a J79 rather then an F100) and look up the thrust curves of the most comparable J79 variants. The documents containing F-16 aerodynamic information is in the linked topic.

I’m not sure if F-20 performance figures are available besides 11.8 degrees a second at Mach .8 15000 feet. If not I suppose you can get aerodynamic information on a late model F-5 and guesstimate. Look up thrust curves for the F404. The production Tigershark would have gotten an upgraded engine. There are some thrust figures for the 402 engine at different altitudes at transonic speeds if your interested, in a GAO report on the Super Hornet.

 

[RAP]

A few items from a General Dymanics F-16 Program Overview dated 1986. Apologies for the poor quality.

 

[NMaude]

a castrated F-16 with an F-4 engine,

Fixed that for you.