FMA I.Ae. 48 Argentine Mach 2 fighter jet

Tiger2

Tiger2

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A most interesting project I managed to stumble upon while trying to find something to discuss. The FMA I.Ae. 48 was one of several ideas made by Argentina and Reimar Horten after he fled there from Nazi Germany to create a fighter jet after the I.Ae. 37, but this one was extremely unique. It was to be a Mach 2 jet that featured a rounded delta wing and most interestingly, engines mounted on underwing nacelles like those on an airliner making it look somewhat like the experimental Red Arrow jet from Thunderbirds. Apparently the Argentine Navy was interested in operating a variant of this from their carrier ARA Independencia too. The strange fighter seemingly got nowhere outside a model and it was canceled in 1960 for economic reasons.

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I have always admired the IAe-48 for its elegant design. In the fifties the fashion was for the delta wing. In fact, it reminds me of the Convair B-58 in a smaller version.
 

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Very nice little bird. But I wouldn't try landing this on ARA Independencia or 25 de Mayo... not without a digital FBW at least. Although F4D Skyrays did not needed one, after all. How big was that aircraft supposed to be ? Would J85s from a F-5E be enough ?
 
Archibald said:
Very nice little bird. But I wouldn't try landing this on ARA Independencia or 25 de Mayo... not without a digital FBW at least. Although F4D Skyrays did not needed one, after all. How big was that aircraft supposed to be ? Would J85s from a F-5E be enough ?
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height 4 m; Wingspan 7 m; Length 14 m; Surface area 50 m²; 65º wing arrow; Estimated maximum speed 2150 Km / h 2.1 Mach; 2 RR Avon of 2950 kg, or 2 RR Nene 101 of 2267 kg, or 2 Bristol Orpheus Bor of 2200 kg thrust
 
Well… in my opinion, the Independencia it wouldn’t be an option. Its wooden deck imposed a serious restriction for jet aircraft. As a matter of fact, that was part of the reason the Navy replaced it with the 25 de Mayo when the Panthers were adquired.

Honestly, if we are talking about delta winged aircraft, I will be more concern about its low speed handling and approach speed and how suitable would those be for carrier operations.
 
Archibald said:
Very nice little bird. But I wouldn't try landing this on ARA Independencia or 25 de Mayo... not without a digital FBW at least. Although F4D Skyrays did not needed one, after all. How big was that aircraft supposed to be ? Would J85s from a F-5E be enough ?
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Yes the Skyray could, but they were a pain in the rear to land so I still wouldn't recommend trying to land it there.
 
NoBarrelRolls said:
Well… in my opinion, the Independencia it wouldn’t be an option. Its wooden deck imposed a serious restriction for jet aircraft. As a matter of fact, that was part of the reason the Navy replaced it with the 25 de Mayo when the Panthers were adquired.
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ARA Indepencia had a wooden deck?
Wasn't she a Colossus class with steel deck?
 
djfawcett said:
Archibald said:
Very nice little bird. But I wouldn't try landing this on ARA Independencia or 25 de Mayo... not without a digital FBW at least. Although F4D Skyrays did not needed one, after all. How big was that aircraft supposed to be ? Would J85s from a F-5E be enough ?
Click to expand...
height 4 m; Wingspan 7 m; Length 14 m; Surface area 50 m²; 65º wing arrow; Estimated maximum speed 2150 Km / h 2.1 Mach; 2 RR Avon of 2950 kg, or 2 RR Nene 101 of 2267 kg, or 2 Bristol Orpheus Bor of 2200 kg thrust
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Hmmm ... 50 m² of wing area seems to me optimistic ... 40 m² seems to me more realistic, including fuselage of course (after mesurement with Paint ;)) ...

Respectuousely
 
Tiger2 said:
Archibald said:
Very nice little bird. But I wouldn't try landing this on ARA Independencia or 25 de Mayo... not without a digital FBW at least. Although F4D Skyrays did not needed one, after all. How big was that aircraft supposed to be ? Would J85s from a F-5E be enough ?
Click to expand...
Yes the Skyray could, but they were a pain in the rear to land so I still wouldn't recommend trying to land it there.
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My Father flew F4Ds with VF-23 and VF(AW)-3. Did CarQuals on the USS Hornet about the time I was born and then went on cruise with VF-23 on the USS Hancock not long after I was born. The Skyray had a bit of Dutch Roll but that could be controlled and there were no issues with carrier landings.

Excellent book on the Skyray by the late Mark Frankel - https://www.specialtypress.com/killer-rays-story-of-the-douglas-f4d-skyray-f5d-skylancer-899.html There are a number of them on sale at EPay for a decent price too....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

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I readily second the above post. It was actually my Christmas present last year. With "Attack from the sea" - the story of the P6M and the Seaplane Striking Force. Loved both books.
 
Tiger2 said:
Archibald said:
Very nice little bird. But I wouldn't try landing this on ARA Independencia or 25 de Mayo... not without a digital FBW at least. Although F4D Skyrays did not needed one, after all. How big was that aircraft supposed to be ? Would J85s from a F-5E be enough ?
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Yes the Skyray could, but they were a pain in the rear to land so I still wouldn't recommend trying to land it there.
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I don't know exactly where the version came from that an IA-48 was projected to operate from the ARA aircraft carriers, equipped with nozzles that could be tilted to help it take off in STOL mode.

With that weight and size, it could not take off from the ARA Independencia, an aircraft carrier from which only the T-28 Fennec and T-6 Texan could be operated, since it did not have the capacity to deploy fighter jets, not even the Panther and Couga, that at that time operated from coastal bases with the Argentine Navy.

Nor could it have operated from the ARA 25 de Mayo, it had to be modified after the Malvinas war to be able to embark the Super Etendard, a light fighter-bomber if compared to the IA-48.

On the other hand, there was a clear rivalry between the Navy and the Air Force over who should be in charge of air operations over the sea. The Navy never in its history bought an aircraft designed by the FMA, which was owned by the FAA. The FMA was managed by the FAA as if it were another air base.
 
I wonder why the aft fuselage is so truncated. Didn't anyone tell the fabricators that was the mount for the stinger in the wind tunnel?:D All joking aside, it just runs contrary to 40 plus years of designing aircraft ......... unless there was a desire to put a rocket assist motor in the tail.
 
Mark Nankivil said:
My Father flew F4Ds with VF-23 and VF(AW)-3. Did CarQuals on the USS Hornet about the time I was born and then went on cruise with VF-23 on the USS Hancock not long after I was born. The Skyray had a bit of Dutch Roll but that could be controlled and there were no issues with carrier landings.

Excellent book on the Skyray by the late Mark Frankel - https://www.specialtypress.com/killer-rays-story-of-the-douglas-f4d-skyray-f5d-skylancer-899.html There are a number of them on sale at EPay for a decent price too....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

9781580072731.jpg
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I borrowed from the library. A fine book, but very little development stuff in general. The section on Westinghouse engines was great.
 
Pancho San Martín observed, when we met at Córdoba (1997) that Horten collaborated with Convair, so perhaps the resemblance is not coincidental. There were no funds available for further research, so Horten merely asked the FMA to provide with two draftsmen. Here's a pic of Dipl. Ing. Reinmar Horten and the administrator of DINFIA (the former IAME, the former Instituto Aerotécnico, the former FMA.....
 

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Of course, such drawings are merely wishful thinking. In his book Nurflügel, Horten dryly remarked that projects like the IA 48 were ismply beyond the reach of an underdeveloped country such as Argentina.

Nurflügel: Die Geschichte der Horten-Flugzeuge 1933 - 1960 Hardcover – 1 Dec. 2012​

German edition by Reimar Horten (Author), Peter F. Selinger (Author )
 
Badner said:
Of course, such drawings are merely wishful thinking. In his book Nurflügel, Horten dryly remarked that projects like the IA 48 were ismply beyond the reach of an underdeveloped country such as Argentina.

Nurflügel: Die Geschichte der Horten-Flugzeuge 1933 - 1960 Hardcover – 1 Dec. 2012​

German edition by Reimar Horten (Author), Peter F. Selinger (Author )
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It's a shame, because it was a beautiful design ! :)
 
djfawcett said:
I wonder why the aft fuselage is so truncated. Didn't anyone tell the fabricators that was the mount for the stinger in the wind tunnel?:D All joking aside, it just runs contrary to 40 plus years of designing aircraft ......... unless there was a desire to put a rocket assist motor in the tail.
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I just noticed that and now I can't get that silly thing out of my sights...
 
Archibald said:
djfawcett said:
I wonder why the aft fuselage is so truncated. Didn't anyone tell the fabricators that was the mount for the stinger in the wind tunnel?:D All joking aside, it just runs contrary to 40 plus years of designing aircraft ......... unless there was a desire to put a rocket assist motor in the tail.
Click to expand...

I just noticed that and now I can't get that silly thing out of my sights...
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Idem !!! :D
 

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